7 ms·

I had other experiences. The friendships I had in AA were superficial. Once, when I was struggling and needed help and people to talk to, I was completely ignor

I had other experiences. The friendships I had in AA were superficial. Once, when I was struggling and needed help and people to talk to, I was completely ignored by the people around me. They didn't want to help the struggling - just to have this toxic positivity that nothing is wrong. I later moved out of state. I came back to visit family, and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had relapsed after I moved and continued using until I was homeless. It was a drama fest. Absolutely ridiculous. When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists.

king_panic 7y ago
That is sad. I'm so sorry.
craftyguy 7y ago
> When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists. That's unfortunate, and mostly in line with other experiences I've heard from friends, etc. AA seems like just another bullshit Christian recruitment/retention facility, that sometimes accidentally helps people who buy into it recover from addiction. Too bad.
- deleted 7y ago
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- jariel 7y ago
  "AA seems like just another bullshit Christian recruitment/retention facility, that sometimes accidentally helps people who buy into it recover from addiction." This is essentially false, and borderline bigotry.
- NAaddict167 7y ago
  My current sponsor’s higher power was once an imaginary vagina. It spoke to him and everything. Try and fit that in the Christianity column.
  - hoistbypetard 7y ago
    (not who you were replying to...) > My current sponsor’s higher power was once an imaginary vagina. > It spoke to him and everything. That made me laugh audibly, and next time I need to refer to a higher power in any sort of conversation, I fully plan to work that in. If you ever have the occasion to tell your sponsor that this story inspired such a reaction from a random person on the internet, I hope it amuses him.
  - Broken_Hippo 7y ago
    I shouldn't have to make up a higher power and do anything with that imaginary construct to make it through the steps of a sobriety program, though. The fact that I'd have to lie about it in the first place is the issue - it doesn't matter if other people's higher power is something non-christian or not. I cannot just be myself.
toofy 7y ago
> ... and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had relapsed after I moved and continued using until I was homeless. It was a drama fest. I obviously don’t have your unique and nuanced understanding of the situation, but this seems like a common occurrence with all humans when they lack information. In my experience when we don’t have information, our group tendencies lean towards filling gaps with the outlandish and dramatic. Again, I don’t know much about AA but I’d question whether that situational behavior was driven by something unique to AA. Though, their hostility to atheism is a problem they should have addressed long ago.
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- bawolff 7y ago
  Humans might have a tendency to gossip...but what's described sounds pretty extreme and well, toxic. To make the broader point, just because humans tend to be assholes does not mean we should accept people being assholes as "natural" or ok.
  - toofy 7y ago
    Oh I certainly did not mean to imply it’s natural or OK... To be more clear, this type of toxicity is seen all over the place and I think this behavior is likely caused by something that isn’t unique to any rehabilitation programs. We see this toxic behavior in everything spanning from job workgroups to community planning committees and yes, it even manifests in extreme ways in many many communities. I’d be the very last person to fall back on some “oh X is natural, so we should always accept X.” so if I gave this impression, huge apologies. It definitely was not my intention. And I really don’t want to come across as if I’m stanning for AA as I’ve heard much more negative about them than positive.
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- P_I_Staker 7y ago
  The relapsed part sure, but having a story that detailed is absurd. He stopped coming to our meeting? Must be homeless and turning tricks on corner... Absolutely ridiculous
koheripbal 7y ago
Like any random group of people, there will always be outliers. I have had nothing but positive experiences with these groups.
- P_I_Staker 7y ago
  I wouldn't be so quick to call him an outlier. His experience is far from uncommon. You can find plenty of people who've had the same or other problems.
iateanapple 7y ago
> When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists. In my experience there are two types of atheists who go to AA: those for whom religion “isn’t their thing” and those who are actively hostile to religion. I think the latter group should find an alternative to AA.
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- deleted 7y ago
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- xnyan 7y ago
  Why should they find an alternate group? I thought the purpose was to address alcohol addiction. And to what group should they go?
  - ineedasername 7y ago
    The AA treatment has a component that many atheists may interpret as religious or spiritual. If that's your interpretation, and you are actively hostile to that belief, then your own world view is not compatible with either the treatment path or the social group you will encounter. That is not going to be a high probability scenario for recovery, and it may interfere with others' recovery, and that's why you should find another group. Which other group? That's a different question. There doesn't have to be an alternative for AA to be a bad option. Though as it turns out, there are many options. A little searching shows there are AA for athiest groups which, presumably, use a modified protocol.
    - xnyan 7y ago
      What I'm hearing is if you are hostile and rude, you should not participate (not trying to put words in your mouth). I agree.
- athrowaway69 7y ago
  Nice. Blaming the victim and implying I was the hostile one. I'm respectful of others' religions. It's a private matter. I made friends, ostensibly, until they found out I was an atheist. So fuck right off with your pseudo-righteous bullshit, okay?
elixanchor 7y ago
sorry that you had these experiences, i can relate to aspects of them as well. each meeting can be quite different. i had to try 10-20 of them in my city to find a few that were on my wavelength. i don't attend aa meetings as often as i used to in early sobriety, but i still go if i have a friend that's struggling and want to open this resource to them. at every meeting, there are things that people say that resonate and things that are cringe-worthy or even inflammatory. part of the meditation and process is being able to be hear and react to everyone's words with equanimity.

king_panic 7y ago

That is sad. I'm so sorry.

craftyguy 7y ago

> When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists. That's unfortunate, and mostly in line with other experiences I've heard from friends, etc. AA seems like just another bullshit Christian recruitment/retention facility, that sometimes accidentally helps people who buy into it recover from addiction. Too bad.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jariel 7y ago
"AA seems like just another bullshit Christian recruitment/retention facility, that sometimes accidentally helps people who buy into it recover from addiction." This is essentially false, and borderline bigotry.
NAaddict167 7y ago
My current sponsor’s higher power was once an imaginary vagina. It spoke to him and everything. Try and fit that in the Christianity column.
- hoistbypetard 7y ago
  (not who you were replying to...) > My current sponsor’s higher power was once an imaginary vagina. > It spoke to him and everything. That made me laugh audibly, and next time I need to refer to a higher power in any sort of conversation, I fully plan to work that in. If you ever have the occasion to tell your sponsor that this story inspired such a reaction from a random person on the internet, I hope it amuses him.
- Broken_Hippo 7y ago
  I shouldn't have to make up a higher power and do anything with that imaginary construct to make it through the steps of a sobriety program, though. The fact that I'd have to lie about it in the first place is the issue - it doesn't matter if other people's higher power is something non-christian or not. I cannot just be myself.

toofy 7y ago

> ... and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had relapsed after I moved and continued using until I was homeless. It was a drama fest. I obviously don’t have your unique and nuanced understanding of the situation, but this seems like a common occurrence with all humans when they lack information. In my experience when we don’t have information, our group tendencies lean towards filling gaps with the outlandish and dramatic. Again, I don’t know much about AA but I’d question whether that situational behavior was driven by something unique to AA. Though, their hostility to atheism is a problem they should have addressed long ago.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
bawolff 7y ago
Humans might have a tendency to gossip...but what's described sounds pretty extreme and well, toxic. To make the broader point, just because humans tend to be assholes does not mean we should accept people being assholes as "natural" or ok.
- toofy 7y ago
  Oh I certainly did not mean to imply it’s natural or OK... To be more clear, this type of toxicity is seen all over the place and I think this behavior is likely caused by something that isn’t unique to any rehabilitation programs. We see this toxic behavior in everything spanning from job workgroups to community planning committees and yes, it even manifests in extreme ways in many many communities. I’d be the very last person to fall back on some “oh X is natural, so we should always accept X.” so if I gave this impression, huge apologies. It definitely was not my intention. And I really don’t want to come across as if I’m stanning for AA as I’ve heard much more negative about them than positive.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
P_I_Staker 7y ago
The relapsed part sure, but having a story that detailed is absurd. He stopped coming to our meeting? Must be homeless and turning tricks on corner... Absolutely ridiculous

koheripbal 7y ago

Like any random group of people, there will always be outliers. I have had nothing but positive experiences with these groups.

P_I_Staker 7y ago
I wouldn't be so quick to call him an outlier. His experience is far from uncommon. You can find plenty of people who've had the same or other problems.

iateanapple 7y ago

> When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists. In my experience there are two types of atheists who go to AA: those for whom religion “isn’t their thing” and those who are actively hostile to religion. I think the latter group should find an alternative to AA.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
xnyan 7y ago
Why should they find an alternate group? I thought the purpose was to address alcohol addiction. And to what group should they go?
- ineedasername 7y ago
  The AA treatment has a component that many atheists may interpret as religious or spiritual. If that's your interpretation, and you are actively hostile to that belief, then your own world view is not compatible with either the treatment path or the social group you will encounter. That is not going to be a high probability scenario for recovery, and it may interfere with others' recovery, and that's why you should find another group. Which other group? That's a different question. There doesn't have to be an alternative for AA to be a bad option. Though as it turns out, there are many options. A little searching shows there are AA for athiest groups which, presumably, use a modified protocol.
  - xnyan 7y ago
    What I'm hearing is if you are hostile and rude, you should not participate (not trying to put words in your mouth). I agree.
athrowaway69 7y ago
Nice. Blaming the victim and implying I was the hostile one. I'm respectful of others' religions. It's a private matter. I made friends, ostensibly, until they found out I was an atheist. So fuck right off with your pseudo-righteous bullshit, okay?

elixanchor 7y ago

sorry that you had these experiences, i can relate to aspects of them as well. each meeting can be quite different. i had to try 10-20 of them in my city to find a few that were on my wavelength. i don't attend aa meetings as often as i used to in early sobriety, but i still go if i have a friend that's struggling and want to open this resource to them. at every meeting, there are things that people say that resonate and things that are cringe-worthy or even inflammatory. part of the meditation and process is being able to be hear and react to everyone's words with equanimity.