11 ms·

> We are what we think China is. This sort of analysis always gets downvoted on HN, but it's true. In many ways we are further along in the direction of having

> We are what we think China is. This sort of analysis always gets downvoted on HN, but it's true. In many ways we are further along in the direction of having an obedient population (compared to China) but we still have our own great firewall and social credit score systems in place to help keep everyone under control. China is more overtly authoritarian than the modern US, which is actually an advantage* in fighting a pandemic. So ironically most of the criticisms of China (as hypocritical as they may be) give China a leg up in this kind of crisis. * Note that I am not condoning authoritarian rule, just noting that it is in some cases effective.

whylie 7y ago
How about they use some of that authority to stop these diseases from festering in cesspools of animal & human waste repeatedly in their country? Pivoting from allowing this to occur to saying they have an advantage or painting them in a positive light is so backwards to me. Hopefully all the dissenters being tortured in black boxes over there are safe from the virus at least.
- MiroF 7y ago
  > festering in cesspools of animal & human waste have you ever even been to china?
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    I showed someone a picture of one of China's metropoles a while ago and asked where they thought it was. Everywhere but China apparently. It is surprising how hard it is for people to let go of such badly outdated information. Here is another one to take a guess at: https://media.tacdn.com/media/attractions-splice-spp-674x446/07/82/83/56.jpg https://media.tacdn.com/media/attractions-splice-spp-674x446...
    - MiroF 7y ago
      granted, at the street-level it is mostly not so glamorous - but gosh reading comments online makes me feel like people are still operating on an early 2000s conception of China.
      - resters 7y ago
        Most of the press coverage about China in the US focuses on pollution, sewage, labor practices, authoritarianism, etc. It's not surprising that many have such a one-sided view and forget how easy it would be to present the US in similar (or worse) light to an unbiased audience.
  - Mountain_Skies 7y ago
    China is a very big place. Lots of modern clean areas and lots of areas that are best described as cesspools. Neither is truly reflective of the entire country. Pretty much the same can be said about the United States and many other countries.
  - simonh 7y ago
    Yes, my wife is Chinese and unfortunately there is actually some truth to that comment. I've seen Chinese public toilets with piles of human excrement around them, because the stink was so bad inside people just did what they needed to do nearby. Animal markets can be truly noxious, and the conditions animals are kept in can be hard to believe.
gdubs 7y ago
Like most things, there are shades of gray and it’s not black and white. China made some critical missteps early on in silencing doctors who spoke up about a novel virus. They also downplayed the crisis to avoid bad news around the New Years celebration (and kept the banquet in Wuhan that was a turning point in the explosive growth of the virus). Once they mobilized, yes, it was impressive — and judging by their numbers today, it has been effective. The US is also a mixed bag. There’s going to be _wide_ variation in the response at state and local levels. But something really stinks with the lack of testing. And despite having China and then Italy show us how seriously we needed to be taking this, we sleep-walked through a critical period and are now creating the top of the roller coaster.
- aqme28 7y ago
  > China made some critical missteps early on in silencing doctors who spoke up about a novel virus. We are doing that too. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-de... > They also downplayed the crisis to avoid bad news around the New Years celebration (and kept the banquet in Wuhan that was a turning point in the explosive growth of the virus). And we're downplaying the crisis to avoid bad news in an election year.
  - microcolonel 7y ago
    How is the story you linked anything like arresting people for taking this seriously? Not having adequate testing early on is not the same as arresting good samaritans.
    - shkkmo 7y ago
      > Federal and state officials said the flu study could not be repurposed because it did not have explicit permission from research subjects; the labs were also not certified for clinical work. While acknowledging the ethical questions, Dr. Chu and others argued there should be more flexibility in an emergency during which so many lives could be lost. On Monday night, state regulators told them to stop testing altogether. While the researches weren't arrested, they were obstructed and then prohibited from continuing to test even though they helped uncover a major outbreak.
DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
effective propaganda is always invisible to an inside observer.

whylie 7y ago

How about they use some of that authority to stop these diseases from festering in cesspools of animal & human waste repeatedly in their country? Pivoting from allowing this to occur to saying they have an advantage or painting them in a positive light is so backwards to me. Hopefully all the dissenters being tortured in black boxes over there are safe from the virus at least.

MiroF 7y ago
> festering in cesspools of animal & human waste have you ever even been to china?
- jacquesm 7y ago
  I showed someone a picture of one of China's metropoles a while ago and asked where they thought it was. Everywhere but China apparently. It is surprising how hard it is for people to let go of such badly outdated information. Here is another one to take a guess at: https://media.tacdn.com/media/attractions-splice-spp-674x446/07/82/83/56.jpg https://media.tacdn.com/media/attractions-splice-spp-674x446...
  - MiroF 7y ago
    granted, at the street-level it is mostly not so glamorous - but gosh reading comments online makes me feel like people are still operating on an early 2000s conception of China.
    - resters 7y ago
      Most of the press coverage about China in the US focuses on pollution, sewage, labor practices, authoritarianism, etc. It's not surprising that many have such a one-sided view and forget how easy it would be to present the US in similar (or worse) light to an unbiased audience.
- Mountain_Skies 7y ago
  China is a very big place. Lots of modern clean areas and lots of areas that are best described as cesspools. Neither is truly reflective of the entire country. Pretty much the same can be said about the United States and many other countries.
- simonh 7y ago
  Yes, my wife is Chinese and unfortunately there is actually some truth to that comment. I've seen Chinese public toilets with piles of human excrement around them, because the stink was so bad inside people just did what they needed to do nearby. Animal markets can be truly noxious, and the conditions animals are kept in can be hard to believe.

gdubs 7y ago

Like most things, there are shades of gray and it’s not black and white. China made some critical missteps early on in silencing doctors who spoke up about a novel virus. They also downplayed the crisis to avoid bad news around the New Years celebration (and kept the banquet in Wuhan that was a turning point in the explosive growth of the virus). Once they mobilized, yes, it was impressive — and judging by their numbers today, it has been effective. The US is also a mixed bag. There’s going to be _wide_ variation in the response at state and local levels. But something really stinks with the lack of testing. And despite having China and then Italy show us how seriously we needed to be taking this, we sleep-walked through a critical period and are now creating the top of the roller coaster.

aqme28 7y ago
> China made some critical missteps early on in silencing doctors who spoke up about a novel virus. We are doing that too. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-de... > They also downplayed the crisis to avoid bad news around the New Years celebration (and kept the banquet in Wuhan that was a turning point in the explosive growth of the virus). And we're downplaying the crisis to avoid bad news in an election year.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  How is the story you linked anything like arresting people for taking this seriously? Not having adequate testing early on is not the same as arresting good samaritans.
  - shkkmo 7y ago
    > Federal and state officials said the flu study could not be repurposed because it did not have explicit permission from research subjects; the labs were also not certified for clinical work. While acknowledging the ethical questions, Dr. Chu and others argued there should be more flexibility in an emergency during which so many lives could be lost. On Monday night, state regulators told them to stop testing altogether. While the researches weren't arrested, they were obstructed and then prohibited from continuing to test even though they helped uncover a major outbreak.

DyslexicAtheist 7y ago

effective propaganda is always invisible to an inside observer.