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It's refreshing to see people helping people in programs like AA. I'm curious to see if the success of these programs change in the coming decades, as younger

by zomg 7y ago

It's refreshing to see people helping people in programs like AA. I'm curious to see if the success of these programs change in the coming decades, as younger generations seem to be moving away from social interaction in favor of social MEDIA interaction. Will this have an impact on the success of programs like AA? I hope not.

Agenttin 7y ago
You could always have an AA meeting in VR Chat. In fact, I'd be surprised if there isn't one.
- michaelbuckbee 7y ago
  With the recent virus concerns, I saw a number of posts about: "Hey don't forget there are online AA meetings".
- xfitm3 7y ago
  Doing it virtually makes it hard to retain the "anonymous" part of AA.
  - snurfer 7y ago
    The "anonymous" part of AA is really disingenuous if you stick with the program. People get to know each other pretty well.
  - venatiodecorus 7y ago
    i feel like it would be easier to retain anonymity in VR vs a physical location where you could be recorded in, or have your car spotted, or have any of the other participants remember your face.
  - bsagdiyev 7y ago
    That isn't how the anonymous part of alcoholics anonymous works. The twelve traditions lay out a better explanation, I think, but you are not totally anonymous in the group meeting, use of first names only when speaking and interacting, but friendships evolve from that. Quick edit: The Twelve Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous: https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/smf-122_en.pdf https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/smf-122_en.pdf
  - billjings 7y ago
    That's an interesting point. I think that's a different sense of the word "anonymous," though. There's a strict sense of the word "anonymous" that is from the tradition of writing: an anonymous letter, for example, or the sense in which 4chan users are anonymous. It means "this person has no unique identity at all, other than what one can infer from this written word." This is the kind of anonymity that e.g. Facebook has fought against with their policy that accounts should have real names. There is another sense in which "anonymous" is used that is common to all kinds of secret societies, though, and that is simply public anonymity as a member of the society. You don't wear a pin or make it known that you are an active member, except maybe to specific individuals that have need of that knowledge. But within the society itself, you very much have a distinct identity.
  - bbunix 7y ago
    Anonymous is at the level of press, radio and films...
    - fat_cam 7y ago
      ^^ Tradition 11. Tradition 12 states: "Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities." While it is easy to take the word anonymity at face value, in my opinion as an alcoholic active in AA, anonymity as it is mentioned here in tradition 12 deals more with ego and pride. When you walk into a meeting, you leave "what you are" at the door and walk in as "who you are." This translates into practices of not using honorifics. A judge isn't "Your Honor" at a meeting. A priest isn't "Father." All are equal, and all are just one drink away from being drunk. Thus, placing AA's principals before our own personalities.
tssva 7y ago
AA may be the most effective of the options studied but that doesn't mean it is a successful program. It just means it is the most effective of what are generally non-successful programs.
- Supermancho 7y ago
  > that doesn't mean it is a successful program Chronic Alcoholics had limbs (hands) cut off during early history. It wasn't very successful comparatively or maybe it wasn't "the best". The best known behavioral solution is the best behavioral solution qualitatively (which is a mix of programs, statistically). But calling such a program (as AA) something non-successful means you've using different criterion than the bar of sustained sobriety and reduced frequency of relapse. It's not clear what differentiates successful from non-successful in your estimation?
  - snurfer 7y ago
    The silent majority of sober people are those who quit drinking using self-help. Those people don't talk about their program.
    - tanseydavid 7y ago
      Do you have a link or citation for that? Is this just your impression that you are relating?
      - snurfer 7y ago
        No citation, but consider this: before the creation of AA (1930-something), are we to believe no one ever stopped drinking successfully?
        daseiner1 7y ago
        Are you aware that you're arguing in bad faith throughout this thread, or do you think these are strong points you're making? "Someone must've quitted drinking before AA existed" => "the silent majority of quitters do so via self-help" is nowhere close to a valid conclusion. Particularly for someone who's prided themself on their rationality elsewhere..
jayd16 7y ago
The kids still talk and hang out. I don't think there's anything to worry about.

by zomg 7y ago

Agenttin 7y ago

You could always have an AA meeting in VR Chat. In fact, I'd be surprised if there isn't one.

michaelbuckbee 7y ago
With the recent virus concerns, I saw a number of posts about: "Hey don't forget there are online AA meetings".
xfitm3 7y ago
Doing it virtually makes it hard to retain the "anonymous" part of AA.
- snurfer 7y ago
  The "anonymous" part of AA is really disingenuous if you stick with the program. People get to know each other pretty well.
- venatiodecorus 7y ago
  i feel like it would be easier to retain anonymity in VR vs a physical location where you could be recorded in, or have your car spotted, or have any of the other participants remember your face.
- bsagdiyev 7y ago
  That isn't how the anonymous part of alcoholics anonymous works. The twelve traditions lay out a better explanation, I think, but you are not totally anonymous in the group meeting, use of first names only when speaking and interacting, but friendships evolve from that. Quick edit: The Twelve Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous: https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/smf-122_en.pdf https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/smf-122_en.pdf
- billjings 7y ago
  That's an interesting point. I think that's a different sense of the word "anonymous," though. There's a strict sense of the word "anonymous" that is from the tradition of writing: an anonymous letter, for example, or the sense in which 4chan users are anonymous. It means "this person has no unique identity at all, other than what one can infer from this written word." This is the kind of anonymity that e.g. Facebook has fought against with their policy that accounts should have real names. There is another sense in which "anonymous" is used that is common to all kinds of secret societies, though, and that is simply public anonymity as a member of the society. You don't wear a pin or make it known that you are an active member, except maybe to specific individuals that have need of that knowledge. But within the society itself, you very much have a distinct identity.
- bbunix 7y ago
  Anonymous is at the level of press, radio and films...
  - fat_cam 7y ago
    ^^ Tradition 11. Tradition 12 states: "Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities." While it is easy to take the word anonymity at face value, in my opinion as an alcoholic active in AA, anonymity as it is mentioned here in tradition 12 deals more with ego and pride. When you walk into a meeting, you leave "what you are" at the door and walk in as "who you are." This translates into practices of not using honorifics. A judge isn't "Your Honor" at a meeting. A priest isn't "Father." All are equal, and all are just one drink away from being drunk. Thus, placing AA's principals before our own personalities.

tssva 7y ago

AA may be the most effective of the options studied but that doesn't mean it is a successful program. It just means it is the most effective of what are generally non-successful programs.

Supermancho 7y ago
> that doesn't mean it is a successful program Chronic Alcoholics had limbs (hands) cut off during early history. It wasn't very successful comparatively or maybe it wasn't "the best". The best known behavioral solution is the best behavioral solution qualitatively (which is a mix of programs, statistically). But calling such a program (as AA) something non-successful means you've using different criterion than the bar of sustained sobriety and reduced frequency of relapse. It's not clear what differentiates successful from non-successful in your estimation?
- snurfer 7y ago
  The silent majority of sober people are those who quit drinking using self-help. Those people don't talk about their program.
  - tanseydavid 7y ago
    Do you have a link or citation for that? Is this just your impression that you are relating?
    - snurfer 7y ago
      No citation, but consider this: before the creation of AA (1930-something), are we to believe no one ever stopped drinking successfully?
      - daseiner1 7y ago
        Are you aware that you're arguing in bad faith throughout this thread, or do you think these are strong points you're making? "Someone must've quitted drinking before AA existed" => "the silent majority of quitters do so via self-help" is nowhere close to a valid conclusion. Particularly for someone who's prided themself on their rationality elsewhere..

jayd16 7y ago

The kids still talk and hang out. I don't think there's anything to worry about.