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Another concern for many people is charging. There are a lot of renters and apartment complexes in Europe. So the big question mark in people's heads is whether

Another concern for many people is charging. There are a lot of renters and apartment complexes in Europe. So the big question mark in people's heads is whether they can charge at home and have to negotiate with their landlord. This needs government regulation that guarantees tenants can get charging infrastructure installed with some reasonable cost-sharing setup.

ggm 7y ago
As an apartment owner, we missed mandatory charging in the basement by two years (its off-the-plan, the change came after we were built. Across the road have it.). The retro-fit cost of high power is going to come. Its a lot more than build-in during construction and goes to if there are sufficient transmission infrastructure investments in the local supply path to your apt. We expect to get 32 amp circuits to every 3rd, 4th parking spot which in principle will share with a long pigtail but the advantage of a park with power will now disadvantage some owners. It requires separate billing. It means having to move the entire apt complex (460 units) to separate billing models, smart meters. It's likely we'll install the ring, the circuit, but not fit outlets unless the owner pays some quotient of the cost, and we will have to inform everyone there is a process, but not everyone can get one. It will be very unequal. Retrofit is going to be a very painful topic for years, for apartments, which is also why their lovely high, un-obstructed roof line is not covered in Solar Cells: it makes perfect sense, but its like herding kittens to get the body corporate or condo committee to agree to spend money. Or pool heating: the retrofit cost is $150,000 for something which could have been planned in for under $50,000. Insanely short sighted design decisions echo down the years.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  > It means having to move the entire apt complex (460 units) to separate billing models, smart meters. Isn't that coming anyway? "The EU aims to replace at least 80% of electricity meters with smart meters by 2020 wherever it is cost-effective to do so." -- although I don't know what cost-effective meant. The building I live in has smart meters, and there are two parking spaces with 400V 3-phase sockets. (I assume the car owners just paid the installation cost.) https://ec.europa.eu/energy/topics/markets-and-consumers/smart-grids-and-meters/overview_en?redir=1 https://ec.europa.eu/energy/topics/markets-and-consumers/sma...
tdhz77 7y ago
Pretty easy to figure out. I had no issues. It's so common these days that we really are hitting exponential growth.
- jillesvangurp 7y ago
  In parts of Europe, we're getting to the point where it's easier to find a charger than a petrol station. There are a lot of them and they are mostly not utilized a lot. Also, there are apps for finding them and lots of incentives for more to be installed.
  - jack_arleth 7y ago
    I'm extremely interested to know in what part of Europe you live because this is the exact opposite as to how I see a close friend and his #EVlife. Allow me to elaborate. My friend lives near Brussels, Belgium. I currently live in between the cities of Hasselt and Antwerp also Belgium. The distance covered in a single trip is 83.2 Km. He drives and I quote: "a full spec Nissan Leaf" whatever that may mean. During winter times, my friend has to take a look at traffic flows because if he has a traffic jam he'll run his battery flat and be stranded. During summer, he's hot because the car can't sustain AC and drive the distance without running his battery flat and be stranded. When he arrives, he has to find a charging pole in the middle of the city centre. He checks this in advance on his application/website/... before he leaves because else, he is stranded. If we go out in the evening he has to spend the night or his car isn't charged and he's stranded. To start charging he has to select one of the three cables he has in his car because of "standards". In the end, I pick him up in my ICE because he's not even at his destination. We have done this dance for about 5 times now and I can assure you that -to me- the EV market seems to be doing everything it possibly can to make me as uninterested as possible in buying an EV. I'd rather take Belgian public transportation than deal with this nonsense. A train might get cancelled, but at least I know I'll be home that same day.
    - varjag 7y ago
      I drive 2013-gen Nissan Leaf in Western Norway. A 90km trip is entirely doable any season but of course you would need to charge on the way back. With 2018 gen Leaf, or any Tesla model really, round trips on a single charge at that distance are unproblematic. As a side remark, I never met an EV owner who actually run their battery flat while going somewhere, it's always a hypothetical.
m463 7y ago
two common scenarios when you can't charge at home: charge at work, supercharge
- mattlondon 7y ago
  Charging at work can only work if you can drive to work (... and your office has charging points for everyone that wants one) In most European cities I am familiar with, the very concept of driving into the office is totally alien - no one does it because a) traffic, b) no parking, and c) there is usually a semi-decent public transport system that is usually quicker when you factor in traffic. Certainly in London, there are some underground/multi-storey parking places you can just drive up to and use, but it is fairly uncommon and always hugely expensive. E.g. nearest one to my office is £38/day ($50) + £11.50 ($15) congestion charge , then it is a 18 minute walk on top of however long it took you to get to the parking (e.g. Google maps suggest 50 minutes for the 5 mile journey for me). Comparable tube journey is about 25 minutes door-to-door and £3.30/$5 Supercharge obviously only works if you own a Tesla.
  - akadruid1 7y ago
    also a London commuter, but mainline rail. my dormitory town has a 1800 space multi storey car park for the station which is full on week days. it probably represents 5% of the vehicles in the town. I think there will be a tipping point, maybe when around 30% vehicles are electric, where people realise there is good money to be made in charging points, and then every big car park will fit them

ggm 7y ago

As an apartment owner, we missed mandatory charging in the basement by two years (its off-the-plan, the change came after we were built. Across the road have it.). The retro-fit cost of high power is going to come. Its a lot more than build-in during construction and goes to if there are sufficient transmission infrastructure investments in the local supply path to your apt. We expect to get 32 amp circuits to every 3rd, 4th parking spot which in principle will share with a long pigtail but the advantage of a park with power will now disadvantage some owners. It requires separate billing. It means having to move the entire apt complex (460 units) to separate billing models, smart meters. It's likely we'll install the ring, the circuit, but not fit outlets unless the owner pays some quotient of the cost, and we will have to inform everyone there is a process, but not everyone can get one. It will be very unequal. Retrofit is going to be a very painful topic for years, for apartments, which is also why their lovely high, un-obstructed roof line is not covered in Solar Cells: it makes perfect sense, but its like herding kittens to get the body corporate or condo committee to agree to spend money. Or pool heating: the retrofit cost is $150,000 for something which could have been planned in for under $50,000. Insanely short sighted design decisions echo down the years.

Symbiote 7y ago
> It means having to move the entire apt complex (460 units) to separate billing models, smart meters. Isn't that coming anyway? "The EU aims to replace at least 80% of electricity meters with smart meters by 2020 wherever it is cost-effective to do so." -- although I don't know what cost-effective meant. The building I live in has smart meters, and there are two parking spaces with 400V 3-phase sockets. (I assume the car owners just paid the installation cost.) https://ec.europa.eu/energy/topics/markets-and-consumers/smart-grids-and-meters/overview_en?redir=1 https://ec.europa.eu/energy/topics/markets-and-consumers/sma...

tdhz77 7y ago

Pretty easy to figure out. I had no issues. It's so common these days that we really are hitting exponential growth.

jillesvangurp 7y ago
In parts of Europe, we're getting to the point where it's easier to find a charger than a petrol station. There are a lot of them and they are mostly not utilized a lot. Also, there are apps for finding them and lots of incentives for more to be installed.
- jack_arleth 7y ago
  I'm extremely interested to know in what part of Europe you live because this is the exact opposite as to how I see a close friend and his #EVlife. Allow me to elaborate. My friend lives near Brussels, Belgium. I currently live in between the cities of Hasselt and Antwerp also Belgium. The distance covered in a single trip is 83.2 Km. He drives and I quote: "a full spec Nissan Leaf" whatever that may mean. During winter times, my friend has to take a look at traffic flows because if he has a traffic jam he'll run his battery flat and be stranded. During summer, he's hot because the car can't sustain AC and drive the distance without running his battery flat and be stranded. When he arrives, he has to find a charging pole in the middle of the city centre. He checks this in advance on his application/website/... before he leaves because else, he is stranded. If we go out in the evening he has to spend the night or his car isn't charged and he's stranded. To start charging he has to select one of the three cables he has in his car because of "standards". In the end, I pick him up in my ICE because he's not even at his destination. We have done this dance for about 5 times now and I can assure you that -to me- the EV market seems to be doing everything it possibly can to make me as uninterested as possible in buying an EV. I'd rather take Belgian public transportation than deal with this nonsense. A train might get cancelled, but at least I know I'll be home that same day.
  - varjag 7y ago
    I drive 2013-gen Nissan Leaf in Western Norway. A 90km trip is entirely doable any season but of course you would need to charge on the way back. With 2018 gen Leaf, or any Tesla model really, round trips on a single charge at that distance are unproblematic. As a side remark, I never met an EV owner who actually run their battery flat while going somewhere, it's always a hypothetical.

m463 7y ago

two common scenarios when you can't charge at home: charge at work, supercharge

mattlondon 7y ago
Charging at work can only work if you can drive to work (... and your office has charging points for everyone that wants one) In most European cities I am familiar with, the very concept of driving into the office is totally alien - no one does it because a) traffic, b) no parking, and c) there is usually a semi-decent public transport system that is usually quicker when you factor in traffic. Certainly in London, there are some underground/multi-storey parking places you can just drive up to and use, but it is fairly uncommon and always hugely expensive. E.g. nearest one to my office is £38/day ($50) + £11.50 ($15) congestion charge , then it is a 18 minute walk on top of however long it took you to get to the parking (e.g. Google maps suggest 50 minutes for the 5 mile journey for me). Comparable tube journey is about 25 minutes door-to-door and £3.30/$5 Supercharge obviously only works if you own a Tesla.
- akadruid1 7y ago
  also a London commuter, but mainline rail. my dormitory town has a 1800 space multi storey car park for the station which is full on week days. it probably represents 5% of the vehicles in the town. I think there will be a tipping point, maybe when around 30% vehicles are electric, where people realise there is good money to be made in charging points, and then every big car park will fit them