8 ms·

What Noma did next: how the ‘New Nordic’ is reshaping the food world

75 points by tintinnabula 7y ago

9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
> land of herring cured in lye This is not a thing. Yes, herring are cured, but not in lye. Lutefisk is made from large white fish (eg. cod), not herring, and it's best known as a Norwegian dish. (Do Danes even eat the stuff?)
- 2rsf 7y ago
  Do Swedes even eat that stuff?
  - _Microft 7y ago
    Well, some Swedes eat Surströmming, that's ... umm 'bad' as well. I heard a joke that went like this: To eat Surströmming, you need three lakes. One lake to open the can in (so it does not splash), another to rinse the fish and a third one to wash your hands in. Then avoid bathing in these lakes for the next decade.
    - gambiting 7y ago
      >>Well, some Swedes eat Surströmming, that's ... umm 'bad' as well. I don't get the hate about Surstroming. Had it in Sweden and I can totally see enjoying it with some pickled gherkin and few shots of vodka. But then I'm Polish so I'll eat pickled anything.
      - dijit 7y ago
        The problem is the smell and the fact people don't know how to handle it to avoid the smell. (Hint: for starters you have to open it under water people!)
    - dehrmann 7y ago
      I think only half of the Swedes I know have ever had Surströmming, and none of them were excited about it. Now snus is another story...
    - notJim 7y ago
      From the Wikipedia page: "German food critic and author Wolfgang Fassbender wrote that 'the biggest challenge when eating surströmming is to vomit only after the first bite, as opposed to before.'"
  - CarlHoerberg 7y ago
    Lutfisk, yes, very much so
  - Entalpi 7y ago
    Lutfisk is a staple at Swedish christmas. It has been fading though.
    - samsari 7y ago
      It's never been present at any Swedish christmas I've ever attended.
  - jeltz 7y ago
    Yes, plenty of Swedes eat it at Christmas. Lutefisk (lutfisk in Swedish) is eaten almost only in Norway and Sweden, it is not a Danish dish.
    - tallanvor 7y ago
      Supposedly more Lutefisk is eaten in the US than in Scandinavia: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/scandinavians-strange-holiday-lutefisk-tradition-2218218/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/scandinavians-strange-... Living in Norway, I can think of one person I know who likes it, and most others hate it, with a few being closer to neutral on it.
      - floren 7y ago
        > I can think of one person I know who likes it, and most others hate it, with a few being closer to neutral on it. It's the same way in the US. My father enjoys it, my wife and I tolerate it, and the rest of my family mostly just chokes down a piece out of Christmas tradition (and to clear up the plate for Swedish meatballs afterward)
      - mattrp 7y ago
        Growing up in the 80s In the US lutefisk was a rumor... supposedly it hadn’t been seen since my grandfather last made it when my parents were kids and he’d been banned since then. I asked some friends in Norway and then said theres a joke to the effect that all the real Norwegians moved to Minnesota long ago. In any case, no one they knew had ever had it! I do remember we would make lefse around the holidays... I made it for my kids and they said it tasted like wet newspaper with butter and sugar... Of course they still ate it all.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        Fricken 7y ago
        My Norwegian Grandfather was born in Minnesota and migrated as a child to a Norwegian community in Alberta. In the 80s I went with my grandparents to an annual Lutefisk dinner, and they didn't eat the Lutefisk, nor would they let me try it. Too disgusting, they said. I've never actually tasted it. Lefse however is the most popular traditional Norwegian dish that we make at Christmas (Lefse is basically a tortilla shell made with potatoes instead of corn or flour). While we regard lefse to be some kind of sacrosanct traditional Norwegian cuisine, in Norway they sell hotdogs wrapped in lefse.
- simongray 7y ago
  > Do Danes even eat the stuff? Nope, but the more traditional-sounding pickled herring is huge here.
  - eitland 7y ago
    It is here in Norway as well. Lutefisk is mostly a seasonal thing AFAIK : )
    - protomyth 7y ago
      It is also in certain US states (MN, ND). I was told that is done more in America than it is in Norway these days.
      - impalallama 7y ago
        Traditions are weird like that, the biggest maker of Lutefisk is in Minnesota I believe.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    A very small disappointment when moving to Denmark was the reduced sild selection compared to Sweden, which I had visited a lot before I moved. I expected to see 10 types in every supermarket, as in Sweden¹. Instead, it's curry (!), dill, plain, and (if I'm very lucky) my favourite, mustard. I've been known to stock up on the more extravagant flavours in Malmø. Skärgårds (skerry? archipelago?) and ramslök (ramson) are the best. ¹ https://www.abba.se/produkter/sill/ https://www.abba.se/produkter/sill/ — 17 types!
    - simongray 7y ago
      Yeah, Danish groceries really can't compete with Sweden's superior selection. I think it's better than it used to be as the grocery store duopoly is under siege by Norwegian and German chains.
- fyfy18 7y ago
  Silkė - pickled herring - is quite popular in Lithuania throughout the year. You can have it on its own, but usually it is served with other vegetetables. My favourite is what I call silkė cake: https://lithuanianintheusa.com/2018/03/28/traditional-dressed-herring-tradicine-silke-pataluose/ https://lithuanianintheusa.com/2018/03/28/traditional-dresse... I'm not sure how it became so popular here, considering we don't have that much of a coastline.
  - yostrovs 7y ago
    Russians call that last thing "shuba," coat (for the herring). One of my favorite things. Glad we agree!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
tuukkah 7y ago
I would say that's mostly old by now and the new new is this bit: "he is partnering with Ikea – which feeds 660 million people a year, making it one of the 10 largest food-service operations in the world – to “veganise” its menu." The linked article from last summer is a good summary: https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/we-tried-ikeas-first-meatless-meatballs-and-they-were-ok/news-story/666c7ad550f6cb2a220d6a531e73f27b https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/we-tried-ike...
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  In my region, Ikea is known for cheap furniture and their tasty currywurst. They have plenty of other dishes of course and by my experience it is quite good for what it pretends to be.
  - tuukkah 7y ago
    Have they begun to offer vegan currywursts yet?
    - raxxorrax 7y ago
      Haven't seen that yet. The market in my vicinity always had vegetarian stuff. Maybe they now label everything that is vegan too. I am no heavy meat eater but think all the fake stuff to be quite underwhelming. Quorn or however it is called can be spiced up quite well. I think they gave that to school children in the UK instead of meat because it was cheaper. Overall I think it cannot compete with real meat, since that creates expectations. But cheese noodles can. Yeah, not vegan, but I don't really care about that from a diet perspective. Yes, cows could be treated better of course.
    - wexxy 7y ago
      Not currywurst, but they have a veggie dog now https://www.ikea.com/us/en/this-is-ikea/sustainable-everyday/veggie-hot-dog-plant-based-goodness-pub166a3131 https://www.ikea.com/us/en/this-is-ikea/sustainable-everyday...
  - harimau777 7y ago
ardit33 7y ago
Fun fact, the chef René Redzepi is actually of Albanian origin. Hence he has been infusing some of that cuisine into the restaurant's menu/ingredients.... Perhaps is what makes Noma so successful, as he has combined the best of two cultures.... (Nordic and South Europe) One of his Albanian 'students' opened a very successful restaurant in Tirana, which is very delicious: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g294446-d10080738-Reviews-Mullixhiu-Tirana_Tirana_County.html https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g294446-d10080...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
Shivetya 7y ago
for an article which practically browbeats us with environmental concern and "brutal inequality" it really is odd they celebrate Noma where lunches cost on the order of $375 without drinks[0][1]. So basically we have a group of pretentious activists bemoaning the well being of the planet and the little guy while eating a mere lunch that is more most of those little people see per month if not year. Spare me. I tried to read the article with an open mind but the amount of preaching was a bit over the top so I went restaurant hunting and outside of the Ikea mentions this what you get, the elite basically having the food equivalent to Papal dispensations. Probably the same bunch which jets from high profile high visibility environment conference to the next. You do not reshape the world on four hundred dollar lunches. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/dining/noma-restaurant-copenhagen.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/dining/noma-restaurant-co... [1] https://noma.dk/food-and-wine/ https://noma.dk/food-and-wine/
- emj 7y ago
  There are many options if you want expensive food, Noma done research in what the next thing in food will be to be sustainable. Of course it's a PR thing, but by backing some edgy projects they lend their name to a worthy cause making it easier to get funding for these projects. You do not reshape the world by critizing people for trying.
  - pkaye 7y ago
    Imagine a corporate executive comes to eat at Noma but to afford that $375 meal, he had to make enough money by offshoring clothing manufacturing to Bangladesh to some worker paid $1/day working in harsh conditions. I feel it matters how that money is earned and spent. I'd rather that executive pay $2/day plus improved working conditions to that worker and instead have a more modest meal.
    - m0zg 7y ago
      It's not even a "meal". It's a show. You still need to eat something before/after if you're hungry.
- 7y ago

75 points by tintinnabula 7y ago

> land of herring cured in lye This is not a thing. Yes, herring are cured, but not in lye. Lutefisk is made from large white fish (eg. cod), not herring, and it's best known as a Norwegian dish. (Do Danes even eat the stuff?)

2rsf 7y ago
Do Swedes even eat that stuff?
- _Microft 7y ago
  Well, some Swedes eat Surströmming, that's ... umm 'bad' as well. I heard a joke that went like this: To eat Surströmming, you need three lakes. One lake to open the can in (so it does not splash), another to rinse the fish and a third one to wash your hands in. Then avoid bathing in these lakes for the next decade.
  - gambiting 7y ago
    >>Well, some Swedes eat Surströmming, that's ... umm 'bad' as well. I don't get the hate about Surstroming. Had it in Sweden and I can totally see enjoying it with some pickled gherkin and few shots of vodka. But then I'm Polish so I'll eat pickled anything.
    - dijit 7y ago
      The problem is the smell and the fact people don't know how to handle it to avoid the smell. (Hint: for starters you have to open it under water people!)
  - dehrmann 7y ago
    I think only half of the Swedes I know have ever had Surströmming, and none of them were excited about it. Now snus is another story...
  - notJim 7y ago
    From the Wikipedia page: "German food critic and author Wolfgang Fassbender wrote that 'the biggest challenge when eating surströmming is to vomit only after the first bite, as opposed to before.'"
- CarlHoerberg 7y ago
  Lutfisk, yes, very much so
- Entalpi 7y ago
  Lutfisk is a staple at Swedish christmas. It has been fading though.
  - samsari 7y ago
    It's never been present at any Swedish christmas I've ever attended.
- jeltz 7y ago
  Yes, plenty of Swedes eat it at Christmas. Lutefisk (lutfisk in Swedish) is eaten almost only in Norway and Sweden, it is not a Danish dish.
  - tallanvor 7y ago
    Supposedly more Lutefisk is eaten in the US than in Scandinavia: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/scandinavians-strange-holiday-lutefisk-tradition-2218218/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/scandinavians-strange-... Living in Norway, I can think of one person I know who likes it, and most others hate it, with a few being closer to neutral on it.
    - floren 7y ago
      > I can think of one person I know who likes it, and most others hate it, with a few being closer to neutral on it. It's the same way in the US. My father enjoys it, my wife and I tolerate it, and the rest of my family mostly just chokes down a piece out of Christmas tradition (and to clear up the plate for Swedish meatballs afterward)
    - mattrp 7y ago
      Growing up in the 80s In the US lutefisk was a rumor... supposedly it hadn’t been seen since my grandfather last made it when my parents were kids and he’d been banned since then. I asked some friends in Norway and then said theres a joke to the effect that all the real Norwegians moved to Minnesota long ago. In any case, no one they knew had ever had it! I do remember we would make lefse around the holidays... I made it for my kids and they said it tasted like wet newspaper with butter and sugar... Of course they still ate it all.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - Fricken 7y ago
        My Norwegian Grandfather was born in Minnesota and migrated as a child to a Norwegian community in Alberta. In the 80s I went with my grandparents to an annual Lutefisk dinner, and they didn't eat the Lutefisk, nor would they let me try it. Too disgusting, they said. I've never actually tasted it. Lefse however is the most popular traditional Norwegian dish that we make at Christmas (Lefse is basically a tortilla shell made with potatoes instead of corn or flour). While we regard lefse to be some kind of sacrosanct traditional Norwegian cuisine, in Norway they sell hotdogs wrapped in lefse.
simongray 7y ago
> Do Danes even eat the stuff? Nope, but the more traditional-sounding pickled herring is huge here.
- eitland 7y ago
  It is here in Norway as well. Lutefisk is mostly a seasonal thing AFAIK : )
  - protomyth 7y ago
    It is also in certain US states (MN, ND). I was told that is done more in America than it is in Norway these days.
    - impalallama 7y ago
      Traditions are weird like that, the biggest maker of Lutefisk is in Minnesota I believe.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  A very small disappointment when moving to Denmark was the reduced sild selection compared to Sweden, which I had visited a lot before I moved. I expected to see 10 types in every supermarket, as in Sweden¹. Instead, it's curry (!), dill, plain, and (if I'm very lucky) my favourite, mustard. I've been known to stock up on the more extravagant flavours in Malmø. Skärgårds (skerry? archipelago?) and ramslök (ramson) are the best. ¹ https://www.abba.se/produkter/sill/ https://www.abba.se/produkter/sill/ — 17 types!
  - simongray 7y ago
    Yeah, Danish groceries really can't compete with Sweden's superior selection. I think it's better than it used to be as the grocery store duopoly is under siege by Norwegian and German chains.
fyfy18 7y ago
Silkė - pickled herring - is quite popular in Lithuania throughout the year. You can have it on its own, but usually it is served with other vegetetables. My favourite is what I call silkė cake: https://lithuanianintheusa.com/2018/03/28/traditional-dressed-herring-tradicine-silke-pataluose/ https://lithuanianintheusa.com/2018/03/28/traditional-dresse... I'm not sure how it became so popular here, considering we don't have that much of a coastline.
- yostrovs 7y ago
  Russians call that last thing "shuba," coat (for the herring). One of my favorite things. Glad we agree!

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

tuukkah 7y ago

I would say that's mostly old by now and the new new is this bit: "he is partnering with Ikea – which feeds 660 million people a year, making it one of the 10 largest food-service operations in the world – to “veganise” its menu." The linked article from last summer is a good summary: https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/we-tried-ikeas-first-meatless-meatballs-and-they-were-ok/news-story/666c7ad550f6cb2a220d6a531e73f27b https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/we-tried-ike...

raxxorrax 7y ago
In my region, Ikea is known for cheap furniture and their tasty currywurst. They have plenty of other dishes of course and by my experience it is quite good for what it pretends to be.
- tuukkah 7y ago
  Have they begun to offer vegan currywursts yet?
  - raxxorrax 7y ago
    Haven't seen that yet. The market in my vicinity always had vegetarian stuff. Maybe they now label everything that is vegan too. I am no heavy meat eater but think all the fake stuff to be quite underwhelming. Quorn or however it is called can be spiced up quite well. I think they gave that to school children in the UK instead of meat because it was cheaper. Overall I think it cannot compete with real meat, since that creates expectations. But cheese noodles can. Yeah, not vegan, but I don't really care about that from a diet perspective. Yes, cows could be treated better of course.
  - wexxy 7y ago
    Not currywurst, but they have a veggie dog now https://www.ikea.com/us/en/this-is-ikea/sustainable-everyday/veggie-hot-dog-plant-based-goodness-pub166a3131 https://www.ikea.com/us/en/this-is-ikea/sustainable-everyday...
- harimau777 7y ago

ardit33 7y ago

Fun fact, the chef René Redzepi is actually of Albanian origin. Hence he has been infusing some of that cuisine into the restaurant's menu/ingredients.... Perhaps is what makes Noma so successful, as he has combined the best of two cultures.... (Nordic and South Europe) One of his Albanian 'students' opened a very successful restaurant in Tirana, which is very delicious: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g294446-d10080738-Reviews-Mullixhiu-Tirana_Tirana_County.html https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g294446-d10080...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

Shivetya 7y ago

for an article which practically browbeats us with environmental concern and "brutal inequality" it really is odd they celebrate Noma where lunches cost on the order of $375 without drinks[0][1]. So basically we have a group of pretentious activists bemoaning the well being of the planet and the little guy while eating a mere lunch that is more most of those little people see per month if not year. Spare me. I tried to read the article with an open mind but the amount of preaching was a bit over the top so I went restaurant hunting and outside of the Ikea mentions this what you get, the elite basically having the food equivalent to Papal dispensations. Probably the same bunch which jets from high profile high visibility environment conference to the next. You do not reshape the world on four hundred dollar lunches. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/dining/noma-restaurant-copenhagen.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/dining/noma-restaurant-co... [1] https://noma.dk/food-and-wine/ https://noma.dk/food-and-wine/

emj 7y ago
There are many options if you want expensive food, Noma done research in what the next thing in food will be to be sustainable. Of course it's a PR thing, but by backing some edgy projects they lend their name to a worthy cause making it easier to get funding for these projects. You do not reshape the world by critizing people for trying.
- pkaye 7y ago
  Imagine a corporate executive comes to eat at Noma but to afford that $375 meal, he had to make enough money by offshoring clothing manufacturing to Bangladesh to some worker paid $1/day working in harsh conditions. I feel it matters how that money is earned and spent. I'd rather that executive pay $2/day plus improved working conditions to that worker and instead have a more modest meal.
  - m0zg 7y ago
    It's not even a "meal". It's a show. You still need to eat something before/after if you're hungry.
7y ago