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Who is saying masks are not helpful? The closest thing the article says is that you should not hoard masks, that their usefulness is against airborne particles

by shkkmo 7y ago

Who is saying masks are not helpful? The closest thing the article says is that you should not hoard masks, that their usefulness is against airborne particles is limited to 30 min and that masks can make some people touch their face more.

thoraway1010 7y ago
"Masks are NOT the most useful thing you can do to protect yourself: they’re hard to wear properly, especially for long periods of time, and their effectiveness against viral particles stops as the filter gets moist with your breathing. Also for some people, wearing a mask makes it more likely that they will touch their face." Reality - masks are a valid, additional step. And given all the other crazy, high cost, high impact steps being taken to "flatten the curve" a low cost low impact step like mask wearing should be on the recommendations list. Even kids (ultra low risk) in shanghai are wearing masks in the playgrounds. And here we have older adults squeezed onto mass transit and are telling them all the reasons why masks may not help. To flatten the curve all low cost low impact steps should be taken.
- bluGill 7y ago
  In Asia it is common to wear masks for air pollution reasons. It might or might not help with a virus, but you can't cite kids in Shanghai unless you can show there is an increase.
  - samatman 7y ago
    Are you joking, or just not current? Single-digit percentages of Asians are wearing masks under normal circumstances, some for pollution and mostly because it's expected if you have a respiratory infection. Masks are now required in public in substantial parts of China. You can be arrested if you leave the house without one.
  - thoraway1010 7y ago
    I was basing this off first person accounts from ex-pats in asia - the big message was that masks are now worn both as a courtesy to others and in some cases are required and kids don't like to wear masks - which makes it tricky when they are mandated. I can't find the blog though.
- rocha 7y ago
  "Masks are NOT THE MOST useful thing you can do..."
letmevoteplease 7y ago
> that their usefulness is against airborne particles is limited to 30 min and that masks can make some people touch their face more. Where is the evidence? "Experience in these settings indicates that respirators can function within their design specifications for 8 hours of continuous or intermittent use. Some research studies (14, 15) have recruited healthcare workers as test subjects and many of those subjects have successfully worn an N95 respirator at work for several hours before they needed to remove them. Thus, the maximum length of continuous use in non-dusty healthcare workplaces is typically dictated by hygienic concerns (e.g., the respirator was discarded because it became contaminated) or practical considerations (e.g., need to use the restroom, meal breaks, etc.), rather than a pre-determined number of hours." https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hcwcontrols/recommendedguidanceextuse.html https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hcwcontrols/recommendedguid...
- thoraway1010 7y ago
  Every reasonable study shows masks being useful. It's why everyone wears them in a medical setting. They are not a guarantee by any means, but you can layer risk reductions. Remind people not to touch their face. Put a surgical mask to reinforce that over nose and mouth. Other benefits if they happen to be sick themselves. etc. There was even thought of encouraging mask use to handle seasonal flu - they are very effective, normal issue is low adherence (people don't like wearing them). In this situation adherence might improve.
  - Aunche 7y ago
    > Every reasonable study shows masks being useful. It's why everyone wears them in a medical setting. What studies? Doctors wear masks to catch droplets from their own mouth and nose. Masks aren't designed to stop viruses, which can enter from the side. They may help if someone sneezes directly in front of you, but that's about it.
    - thoraway1010 7y ago
      We are closing schools and you are saying masks ONLY help when someone sneezes right at you - TOTALLY false. Masks are an absolutely basic viral control measure. Seriously, a virus is on a surface, you touch a surface, then you touch your mouth. You're done. A mask reduces this risk. "In an adjusted analysis of compliant subjects, masks as a group had protective efficacy in excess of 80% against clinical influenza-like illness." - https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(08)01008-4/fulltext https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(08)01008-4/ful... If you are going to pump out lies please do it when folks are not facing something like covid. Seriously, wearing a mask has almost no downside if you are in a high risk area / are older, and some proven upsides.

by shkkmo 7y ago

thoraway1010 7y ago

"Masks are NOT the most useful thing you can do to protect yourself: they’re hard to wear properly, especially for long periods of time, and their effectiveness against viral particles stops as the filter gets moist with your breathing. Also for some people, wearing a mask makes it more likely that they will touch their face." Reality - masks are a valid, additional step. And given all the other crazy, high cost, high impact steps being taken to "flatten the curve" a low cost low impact step like mask wearing should be on the recommendations list. Even kids (ultra low risk) in shanghai are wearing masks in the playgrounds. And here we have older adults squeezed onto mass transit and are telling them all the reasons why masks may not help. To flatten the curve all low cost low impact steps should be taken.

bluGill 7y ago
In Asia it is common to wear masks for air pollution reasons. It might or might not help with a virus, but you can't cite kids in Shanghai unless you can show there is an increase.
- samatman 7y ago
  Are you joking, or just not current? Single-digit percentages of Asians are wearing masks under normal circumstances, some for pollution and mostly because it's expected if you have a respiratory infection. Masks are now required in public in substantial parts of China. You can be arrested if you leave the house without one.
- thoraway1010 7y ago
  I was basing this off first person accounts from ex-pats in asia - the big message was that masks are now worn both as a courtesy to others and in some cases are required and kids don't like to wear masks - which makes it tricky when they are mandated. I can't find the blog though.
rocha 7y ago
"Masks are NOT THE MOST useful thing you can do..."

letmevoteplease 7y ago

> that their usefulness is against airborne particles is limited to 30 min and that masks can make some people touch their face more. Where is the evidence? "Experience in these settings indicates that respirators can function within their design specifications for 8 hours of continuous or intermittent use. Some research studies (14, 15) have recruited healthcare workers as test subjects and many of those subjects have successfully worn an N95 respirator at work for several hours before they needed to remove them. Thus, the maximum length of continuous use in non-dusty healthcare workplaces is typically dictated by hygienic concerns (e.g., the respirator was discarded because it became contaminated) or practical considerations (e.g., need to use the restroom, meal breaks, etc.), rather than a pre-determined number of hours." https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hcwcontrols/recommendedguidanceextuse.html https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hcwcontrols/recommendedguid...

thoraway1010 7y ago
Every reasonable study shows masks being useful. It's why everyone wears them in a medical setting. They are not a guarantee by any means, but you can layer risk reductions. Remind people not to touch their face. Put a surgical mask to reinforce that over nose and mouth. Other benefits if they happen to be sick themselves. etc. There was even thought of encouraging mask use to handle seasonal flu - they are very effective, normal issue is low adherence (people don't like wearing them). In this situation adherence might improve.
- Aunche 7y ago
  > Every reasonable study shows masks being useful. It's why everyone wears them in a medical setting. What studies? Doctors wear masks to catch droplets from their own mouth and nose. Masks aren't designed to stop viruses, which can enter from the side. They may help if someone sneezes directly in front of you, but that's about it.
  - thoraway1010 7y ago
    We are closing schools and you are saying masks ONLY help when someone sneezes right at you - TOTALLY false. Masks are an absolutely basic viral control measure. Seriously, a virus is on a surface, you touch a surface, then you touch your mouth. You're done. A mask reduces this risk. "In an adjusted analysis of compliant subjects, masks as a group had protective efficacy in excess of 80% against clinical influenza-like illness." - https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(08)01008-4/fulltext https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(08)01008-4/ful... If you are going to pump out lies please do it when folks are not facing something like covid. Seriously, wearing a mask has almost no downside if you are in a high risk area / are older, and some proven upsides.