17 ms·

The government is calling to unity, and the situation is tragic enough that no-one can ignore the call. However the left wing (and the current ruling coalition

The government is calling to unity, and the situation is tragic enough that no-one can ignore the call. However the left wing (and the current ruling coalition) has some serious responsibilities here, and I hope they are held accountable once this mess is over. A few weeks ago we were told that 'the only virus there is, is racism', implying that people worried about the virus spreading were doing so because of an anti-Chinese sentiment. The other popular talking point was that there are more flu deaths every year, so one shouldn't worry. I see a link between this attitude and the current disaster. The situation is bad, though. I was particularly shocked by an ICU medic from Lombardia declaring that in his hospital they cannot treat all the patients, and that they have to select those that appear to have the highest survival chances, something you do in times of war. (throwaway since my coworkers know my username here, and they wouldn't like my political opinions, I hope this is allowed, otherwise please remove.)

egeozcan 7y ago
Left or right, all governments seem to be doing less than stellar job fighting this, to say the least. I don't understand why it is relevant.
- fulvioterzapi 7y ago
  I think Italy is doing a bit worse than all other countries. Please re-read what I wrote, because I made the link with the current left-wing coalition very clear. I'll rewrite it here for your convenience: I pointed out that initially the left wing underplayed the threat, while accusing people taking precautions of doing so in the name of racism. "The only virus there is, is racism", they told us. "The flu makes more victims, so we shouldn't worry", they told us. That's why I am talking about the left wing and their reckless behaviour.
  - Jare 7y ago
    > I think Italy is doing a bit worse that all other governments It is the first western government to fucking react (even if forced to) and show everyone else the road ahead. And everyone else keeps acting like they hope it's not going to happen to them.
    - fulvioterzapi 7y ago
      The Titanic was the first transatlantic ship to "fucking react" to an iceberg. Is this a point of pride?
      - Jare 7y ago
        > The Titanic was the first transatlantic ship to "fucking react" to an iceberg That's both funny and totally not true.
  - vaidhy 7y ago
    I do not believe it is left-wing or right-wing specific behavior. We are seeing the issue being handled the same way across the world. So, making a political statement does not contribute anything. If you remove the "left-wing", the point would be equally valid.
    - H_Pylori 7y ago
      Actually, in Italy, leftists political figures grossly underestimated the extent of the problem, urging people to behave normally. This is Zingaretti, current secretary of the Partito Democratico, at an after-work gathering in the epicenter of the epidemic: https://www.iltempo.it/resizer/670/-1/true/1583598486385.jpg--selvaggia_lucarelli_e_l_aperitivo_di_nicola_zingaretti__il_post_boomerang_scatena_i_social.jpg?1583598486000 https://www.iltempo.it/resizer/670/-1/true/1583598486385.jpg... Zingaretti is at the moment quarantined in his house and he's infected with the virus.
  - deerIRL 7y ago
    Could you provide a link to where "the left" has said the only virus is racism? I wasn't able to find anything, but admittedly my Italian is not great. I find it hard to believe, and given Italy's recent problems with the far-right surge, it seems to be more fake news.
    - fulvioterzapi 7y ago
      > I wasn't able to find anything, but admittedly my Italian is not great. > I find it hard to believe, and given Italy's recent problems with the far-right surge, it seems to be more fake news. So you don't speak enough Italian to verify, but still you got a hunch. And since we're at it, let's accuse whoever says things I don't like of spreading fake news. What a constructive attitude! Besides not speaking Italian well enough, you are not even well informed about Italian politics, because everyone even just skimming through headlines would know that a few weeks ago the President of the Italian Republic visited a primary school with mainly Chinese pupils as a symbolic gesture against discrimination and racism. There was also a long article about racism and Coronavirus on Internazionale, but you could easily find tens of sources. Get your facts straights (or just ask) before accusing people of spreading fake news.
      - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
        When someone writes > "The only virus there is, is racism", they told us. That typically means that some specific person, one with power and influence, said the exact words (or something which can be translated to the exact words) "the only virus there is, is racism". If you just mean that some people are talking about racism caused by the coronavirus, that's a very misleading way to phrase it.
        deerIRL 7y ago
        Thank you! You said my words better than I could have. I probably shouldn't compose comments when I am rushing between things!
      - deerIRL 7y ago
- tim333 7y ago
  Some are doing a good job eg Taiwan https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/taiwan-reins-spread-coronavirus-countries-stumble-200307034353325.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/taiwan-reins-spread-c...
- beepboopbeep 7y ago
  That's just not correct. There are clearly some doing more than others, you've just chosen lazy cynicism as the lens to view it all through.
bonzini 7y ago
Since genome analysis has shown that the Italian strain came from Germany, they were right in denouncing racism against Chinese people living in Italy. Just like it's now incorrect to treat Italy like the European Wuhan. I am not sure how you can say the government's response is worse than other countries, where other governments are doing absolutely nothing even after they reached a thousand cases. (BTW the right spelling of your otherwise beautiful nick should be furioterzapi).
- fulvioterzapi 7y ago
  > they were right in denouncing racism against Chinese people living in Italy. In my opinion there was no actual racism, just common sense measures. That work against any strain. > I am not sure how you can say the government's response is worse than other countries I am thinking of our prime minister, for instance. Two weeks ago he was on TV 16 times in a single day, to denounce the emergency. Then we went into the 'business as usual' phase, and the situation slipped out of hand. Today he was quoting Churchill, and I had the impression that it was more to inflate his ego, rather than to do something useful for the country. All in all I see a very amateurish management of the crisis. > furioterzapi That's a debated point, on live versions of the song you can clearly hear "Fulvio". On the booklet they write "Furio".
  - bonzini 7y ago
    Common sense measures include washing your hands, not avoiding Chinese restaurants. But yes, it wasn't perfect. At least there was no generalized denial.
    - skybrian 7y ago
      It seems like we should be reconsidering all restaurant meals? Why take the risk if you can eat at home?
      - humaniania 7y ago
        It lessens the impact on the local economy. Restaurant workers are a generally vulnerable population in the US with little or no PTO and they often have poor access to health care.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
toyg 7y ago
* Health services in Italy are entirely controlled at the regional level * The two worst-hit regions (Lombardia and Veneto) are ruled by right-wing coalitions * Not even the administrations of those regions, who should be politically on the same page, can agree on what to do / what should have been done * Prato in Toscana, the "unofficial Chinese capital of Italy", has seen no cases whatsoever. But sure, let's use a worldwide pandemic to throw around some casual racism - like the rest of Europe is doing against "dirty Italians" right now.
- epicureanideal 7y ago
  I don't think pointing out business connections between individuals belonging to particular nation states is an example of "casual racism". It's no kind of racism at all. But the rest of the information you provided is very interesting! That the "Chinese capital" of Italy has no cases is very interesting, in particular.
  - toyg 7y ago
    > It's no kind of racism at all. The political situation in Italy has been an absolute powder-keg of not-even-casual racism for years now, not unlike some areas of the UK. The "political boss" of those two regional administrations I mentioned, Matteo Salvini of Lega Nord, tried to scapegoat Asian communities pretty brutally at the onset of the epidemic, with the usual result (Asian-looking people being shouted at in the streets etc). We now know that the European "patient 0" was likely from Germany, so these right-wingers were left with egg on their faces and are now running around like headless chickens - just yesterday Lombardia asked for more rigorous lockdown measures, whereas Veneto was asking for the opposite. So I get pretty pissed off at the strenuous attempts to go back to the original talking points about discrimination of entire ethnic groups, particularly when Italians abroad (a category that includes me) have to suffer the same idiotic attitudes at the moment.
    - fulvioterzapi 7y ago
      > so these right-wingers were left with egg on their faces You could say the same of the left-wing, that promoted for weeks a reckless attitude, pushing the message that we just needed to do business as usual, and to "overcome the fear". The secretary of the most prominent left-wing party, Zingaretti is now infected. About two weeks ago was posting picture of him drinking at a bar with other people. On top of the picture he wrote: "Our slogan is: normality. [...] Our economy is stronger than fear: let's go out and drink an aperitif, a coffee or have a pizza". While I wish him a speedy recovery, it's undeniable the left wing downplayed the risks.

egeozcan 7y ago

Left or right, all governments seem to be doing less than stellar job fighting this, to say the least. I don't understand why it is relevant.

fulvioterzapi 7y ago
I think Italy is doing a bit worse than all other countries. Please re-read what I wrote, because I made the link with the current left-wing coalition very clear. I'll rewrite it here for your convenience: I pointed out that initially the left wing underplayed the threat, while accusing people taking precautions of doing so in the name of racism. "The only virus there is, is racism", they told us. "The flu makes more victims, so we shouldn't worry", they told us. That's why I am talking about the left wing and their reckless behaviour.
- Jare 7y ago
  > I think Italy is doing a bit worse that all other governments It is the first western government to fucking react (even if forced to) and show everyone else the road ahead. And everyone else keeps acting like they hope it's not going to happen to them.
  - fulvioterzapi 7y ago
    The Titanic was the first transatlantic ship to "fucking react" to an iceberg. Is this a point of pride?
    - Jare 7y ago
      > The Titanic was the first transatlantic ship to "fucking react" to an iceberg That's both funny and totally not true.
- vaidhy 7y ago
  I do not believe it is left-wing or right-wing specific behavior. We are seeing the issue being handled the same way across the world. So, making a political statement does not contribute anything. If you remove the "left-wing", the point would be equally valid.
  - H_Pylori 7y ago
    Actually, in Italy, leftists political figures grossly underestimated the extent of the problem, urging people to behave normally. This is Zingaretti, current secretary of the Partito Democratico, at an after-work gathering in the epicenter of the epidemic: https://www.iltempo.it/resizer/670/-1/true/1583598486385.jpg--selvaggia_lucarelli_e_l_aperitivo_di_nicola_zingaretti__il_post_boomerang_scatena_i_social.jpg?1583598486000 https://www.iltempo.it/resizer/670/-1/true/1583598486385.jpg... Zingaretti is at the moment quarantined in his house and he's infected with the virus.
- deerIRL 7y ago
  Could you provide a link to where "the left" has said the only virus is racism? I wasn't able to find anything, but admittedly my Italian is not great. I find it hard to believe, and given Italy's recent problems with the far-right surge, it seems to be more fake news.
  - fulvioterzapi 7y ago
    > I wasn't able to find anything, but admittedly my Italian is not great. > I find it hard to believe, and given Italy's recent problems with the far-right surge, it seems to be more fake news. So you don't speak enough Italian to verify, but still you got a hunch. And since we're at it, let's accuse whoever says things I don't like of spreading fake news. What a constructive attitude! Besides not speaking Italian well enough, you are not even well informed about Italian politics, because everyone even just skimming through headlines would know that a few weeks ago the President of the Italian Republic visited a primary school with mainly Chinese pupils as a symbolic gesture against discrimination and racism. There was also a long article about racism and Coronavirus on Internazionale, but you could easily find tens of sources. Get your facts straights (or just ask) before accusing people of spreading fake news.
    - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
      When someone writes > "The only virus there is, is racism", they told us. That typically means that some specific person, one with power and influence, said the exact words (or something which can be translated to the exact words) "the only virus there is, is racism". If you just mean that some people are talking about racism caused by the coronavirus, that's a very misleading way to phrase it.
      - deerIRL 7y ago
        Thank you! You said my words better than I could have. I probably shouldn't compose comments when I am rushing between things!
    - deerIRL 7y ago
tim333 7y ago
Some are doing a good job eg Taiwan https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/taiwan-reins-spread-coronavirus-countries-stumble-200307034353325.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/taiwan-reins-spread-c...
beepboopbeep 7y ago
That's just not correct. There are clearly some doing more than others, you've just chosen lazy cynicism as the lens to view it all through.

bonzini 7y ago

Since genome analysis has shown that the Italian strain came from Germany, they were right in denouncing racism against Chinese people living in Italy. Just like it's now incorrect to treat Italy like the European Wuhan. I am not sure how you can say the government's response is worse than other countries, where other governments are doing absolutely nothing even after they reached a thousand cases. (BTW the right spelling of your otherwise beautiful nick should be furioterzapi).

fulvioterzapi 7y ago
> they were right in denouncing racism against Chinese people living in Italy. In my opinion there was no actual racism, just common sense measures. That work against any strain. > I am not sure how you can say the government's response is worse than other countries I am thinking of our prime minister, for instance. Two weeks ago he was on TV 16 times in a single day, to denounce the emergency. Then we went into the 'business as usual' phase, and the situation slipped out of hand. Today he was quoting Churchill, and I had the impression that it was more to inflate his ego, rather than to do something useful for the country. All in all I see a very amateurish management of the crisis. > furioterzapi That's a debated point, on live versions of the song you can clearly hear "Fulvio". On the booklet they write "Furio".
- bonzini 7y ago
  Common sense measures include washing your hands, not avoiding Chinese restaurants. But yes, it wasn't perfect. At least there was no generalized denial.
  - skybrian 7y ago
    It seems like we should be reconsidering all restaurant meals? Why take the risk if you can eat at home?
    - humaniania 7y ago
      It lessens the impact on the local economy. Restaurant workers are a generally vulnerable population in the US with little or no PTO and they often have poor access to health care.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

toyg 7y ago

* Health services in Italy are entirely controlled at the regional level * The two worst-hit regions (Lombardia and Veneto) are ruled by right-wing coalitions * Not even the administrations of those regions, who should be politically on the same page, can agree on what to do / what should have been done * Prato in Toscana, the "unofficial Chinese capital of Italy", has seen no cases whatsoever. But sure, let's use a worldwide pandemic to throw around some casual racism - like the rest of Europe is doing against "dirty Italians" right now.

epicureanideal 7y ago
I don't think pointing out business connections between individuals belonging to particular nation states is an example of "casual racism". It's no kind of racism at all. But the rest of the information you provided is very interesting! That the "Chinese capital" of Italy has no cases is very interesting, in particular.
- toyg 7y ago
  > It's no kind of racism at all. The political situation in Italy has been an absolute powder-keg of not-even-casual racism for years now, not unlike some areas of the UK. The "political boss" of those two regional administrations I mentioned, Matteo Salvini of Lega Nord, tried to scapegoat Asian communities pretty brutally at the onset of the epidemic, with the usual result (Asian-looking people being shouted at in the streets etc). We now know that the European "patient 0" was likely from Germany, so these right-wingers were left with egg on their faces and are now running around like headless chickens - just yesterday Lombardia asked for more rigorous lockdown measures, whereas Veneto was asking for the opposite. So I get pretty pissed off at the strenuous attempts to go back to the original talking points about discrimination of entire ethnic groups, particularly when Italians abroad (a category that includes me) have to suffer the same idiotic attitudes at the moment.
  - fulvioterzapi 7y ago
    > so these right-wingers were left with egg on their faces You could say the same of the left-wing, that promoted for weeks a reckless attitude, pushing the message that we just needed to do business as usual, and to "overcome the fear". The secretary of the most prominent left-wing party, Zingaretti is now infected. About two weeks ago was posting picture of him drinking at a bar with other people. On top of the picture he wrote: "Our slogan is: normality. [...] Our economy is stronger than fear: let's go out and drink an aperitif, a coffee or have a pizza". While I wish him a speedy recovery, it's undeniable the left wing downplayed the risks.