4 ms·

Twitter is awesome because it doesn't operate under the growth for growths sake mentality plaguing many other companies. It really is an incredible public utili

Twitter is awesome because it doesn't operate under the growth for growths sake mentality plaguing many other companies. It really is an incredible public utility provided you liberally mute/block/unfollow all the petty fighting and find good people. Jack seems to understand that. I hope it doesn't devolve into a narrow reveneue maximizing ad-filled trashfire, but thats probably what the hedge fund will push for. I think it would be better off as a non-profit so they can get the paperclip maximizers off their back. Heres hoping Jack wins this one.

smachiz 7y ago
> Twitter is awesome because it doesn't operate under the growth for growths sake mentality plaguing many other companies. Is that really true though? They've been a huge beneficiary of fake news, astroturfing and bots. They've only relatively recently started to do something resembling policing of these things.
- actionscripted 7y ago
  Growth for growth's sake doesn't have anything to do with fake news, astroturfing or bots.
  - smachiz 7y ago
    Except for all those bots counting as users for growth, and the fake engagement by bots counting as growth, and the fake news driving real clicks from real people counting as growth........
  - slg 7y ago
    Growth is the implied motivation for not cutting down on fake news, astroturfing, and bots. When you are selling yourself on engagement and user numbers, you have an incentive to continue allowing fake engagement and users.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Also the regular cycle of "release an API, encourage companies to build on top of it, then pull it out", essentially resembling Reapers from Mass Effect.
- gdulli 7y ago
  On Facebook you're bound to your friends/family/co-workers/etc, on Reddit you're bound to the shallowest lowest common denominator content (front page) or else endless spam and self-promotion (sort by new.) Twitter is where you're meaningfully in control of who you follow and what you see. That means it's on you to curate that, and many won't want to do that. I was on Twitter for a while before I found the real niche and strategies that made it my favorite place. Once I got it, the curation became an activity that I enjoy, part of the loop, and it's rewarding when it's working well. If you're seeing fake news regularly it's because you want to see it. One key thing to do is avoid the algorithmic timeline, Twitter does force bullshit down your throat to maximize engagement metrics, but where is that not the norm anymore? My Twitter experience might crumble if I lose access to the app that removes ads and suggested content from the timeline and keeps it fully chronological.
  - wronglebowski 7y ago
    I fully agree. Twitter is a platform where I can truly curate what I see and interact with in a meaningful fashion. On Reddit you can follow a community but then you’re bound by the quality of the community and it’s moderation. If on Twitter I want to follow an author I follow them. I engage with them. No additional noise or BS.
  - btown 7y ago
    For what it's worth, Reddit becomes equally curatable to Twitter once you unfollow the default subreddits and join niche ones. There are multiple lines of defense that lend themselves to curation: niche subreddits have moderators who can remove off-topic posts; users are further disincentivized from making off-topic posts as they would run the risk of losing karma; subreddits tend to fracture into X/XMemes/XMetaDiscussion/XGifs/XVideo/SeriousX etc. so you can fine-tune what part of a topic you want; Reddit's "Custom Feeds" feature allows you to further separate your subscriptions into topic-specific buckets, allowing you to focus on one set of interests at a time. And the suggestion algorithm is both more rudimentary and just a jumping-off point to spend time on a specific subreddit you like. What Twitter does bring is the ability for one to say "this is a person I know or am familiar with; I can now trust what they say" - which Reddit eschews in favor of simple popularity. But since the "Hot" algorithm weights based on time-scaled popularity within each community, it's not quite as bad as one might think.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  >They've only relatively recently started to do something resembling policing of these things. I'm unconvinced that this is even a good thing. It's really hard to police that without seeming biased. Take this new story about labeling a clip of Biden as "edited". Biden said those words, but the clip was cut short. This is essentially a sound bite without context. It makes Twitter look like they're defending Biden, but I doubt that this was Twitter's intent. I think that trying to police these things now will simply dig themselves deeper into a hole.
RIMR 7y ago
Nothing you said here was true. Twitter's #1 goal is to generate profit through advertising. You can pay for a slot on the "trending" list. They have custom "emojis" for paying customers' trends. They aren't putting free speech first - they actively suspend accounts for making jokes about their largest advertisers. Remember the Starbucks / Steve King debacle where Steve King thought that a Starbucks store manager was firing people for saying "Merry Christmas"? Twitter banned the satirist who made the joke, saying he had "impersonated the Starbucks brand" by falsely claiming to be an employee. (https://www.newsweek.com/steve-king-starbucks-merry-christmas-fake-meme-shock-facebook-war-christmas-1477748 https://www.newsweek.com/steve-king-starbucks-merry-christma...) It isn't a "public utility". It's a privately-owned social media website that operates in whatever way it has to to produce profit for shareholders. The public doesn't own the platform and has zero governance of how it works. Your ability to mute/block/unfollow accounts does not change this. Twitter is already a "revenue-maximizing ad-filled trashfire" in every way that matters.
saluki 7y ago
If they saturate Twitter with ads I think we could see a new twitter, small team, simple basic ads to pay salaries and keep the app running smooth. Same with Google Search, someone could just create Classic Search, what Google used to be, a few simple ads and relevant search results. I think there is an opportunity for new companies to get back to basics (minimal ads + privacy) with lots of sites/services we used to love but have turned in to screens full of ads and selling user data.
annadane 7y ago
I mean they did start publicly displaying "likes". That's what retweet is for. They're not immune to bullshit design decisions
btrettel 7y ago
> It really is an incredible public utility provided you liberally mute/bloctk/unfollow all the petty fighting and find good people. How do you find good people on Twitter? My interests are esoteric and as far as I can tell not represented on Twitter. I've read people assert that most every interest is covered on Twitter, but that's not even close to true as far as I can tell. https://ruben.verborgh.org/blog/2012/10/25/social-media-as-spotlight-on-your-research/ https://ruben.verborgh.org/blog/2012/10/25/social-media-as-s... > virtually every topic is covered. The connection between butterfly wings and sea snails? Check. The latest trends in space law? Check. In fact, every niche has its Tweeters because of the long tail effect. And if you’re researching something really rare and unique, well, congratulations—you get to be a pioneer as a first online news source on your topic! I don't see a reason to be a "pioneer" on someone else's platform (with character limits, etc.) when I think publishing a website on my interests would better reach people with the same interests.
im3w1l 7y ago
As a user, the people who's opinions I wanted to read posted about day to day matters. And the people who's day to day matters I wanted to read about posted opinions. As a non-user, I'm affected negatively by all of the crazies that are radicalized on twitter.
robotnikman 7y ago
That's my biggest concern with Twitters future right now. It already does what it does best, why should new and unnecessary features be added, and like you said Jack seems to understand that. The Investors however think otherwise, since unfortunately the tech industry has adopted the unnecessary change for changes sake for the last decade. I can already see what such a mentality has done to many other sites, and In the end it drives away the core users of the platform. I can already see this in progress with Reddit for example.

smachiz 7y ago

> Twitter is awesome because it doesn't operate under the growth for growths sake mentality plaguing many other companies. Is that really true though? They've been a huge beneficiary of fake news, astroturfing and bots. They've only relatively recently started to do something resembling policing of these things.

actionscripted 7y ago
Growth for growth's sake doesn't have anything to do with fake news, astroturfing or bots.
- smachiz 7y ago
  Except for all those bots counting as users for growth, and the fake engagement by bots counting as growth, and the fake news driving real clicks from real people counting as growth........
- slg 7y ago
  Growth is the implied motivation for not cutting down on fake news, astroturfing, and bots. When you are selling yourself on engagement and user numbers, you have an incentive to continue allowing fake engagement and users.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
Also the regular cycle of "release an API, encourage companies to build on top of it, then pull it out", essentially resembling Reapers from Mass Effect.
gdulli 7y ago
On Facebook you're bound to your friends/family/co-workers/etc, on Reddit you're bound to the shallowest lowest common denominator content (front page) or else endless spam and self-promotion (sort by new.) Twitter is where you're meaningfully in control of who you follow and what you see. That means it's on you to curate that, and many won't want to do that. I was on Twitter for a while before I found the real niche and strategies that made it my favorite place. Once I got it, the curation became an activity that I enjoy, part of the loop, and it's rewarding when it's working well. If you're seeing fake news regularly it's because you want to see it. One key thing to do is avoid the algorithmic timeline, Twitter does force bullshit down your throat to maximize engagement metrics, but where is that not the norm anymore? My Twitter experience might crumble if I lose access to the app that removes ads and suggested content from the timeline and keeps it fully chronological.
- wronglebowski 7y ago
  I fully agree. Twitter is a platform where I can truly curate what I see and interact with in a meaningful fashion. On Reddit you can follow a community but then you’re bound by the quality of the community and it’s moderation. If on Twitter I want to follow an author I follow them. I engage with them. No additional noise or BS.
- btown 7y ago
  For what it's worth, Reddit becomes equally curatable to Twitter once you unfollow the default subreddits and join niche ones. There are multiple lines of defense that lend themselves to curation: niche subreddits have moderators who can remove off-topic posts; users are further disincentivized from making off-topic posts as they would run the risk of losing karma; subreddits tend to fracture into X/XMemes/XMetaDiscussion/XGifs/XVideo/SeriousX etc. so you can fine-tune what part of a topic you want; Reddit's "Custom Feeds" feature allows you to further separate your subscriptions into topic-specific buckets, allowing you to focus on one set of interests at a time. And the suggestion algorithm is both more rudimentary and just a jumping-off point to spend time on a specific subreddit you like. What Twitter does bring is the ability for one to say "this is a person I know or am familiar with; I can now trust what they say" - which Reddit eschews in favor of simple popularity. But since the "Hot" algorithm weights based on time-scaled popularity within each community, it's not quite as bad as one might think.
Mirioron 7y ago
>They've only relatively recently started to do something resembling policing of these things. I'm unconvinced that this is even a good thing. It's really hard to police that without seeming biased. Take this new story about labeling a clip of Biden as "edited". Biden said those words, but the clip was cut short. This is essentially a sound bite without context. It makes Twitter look like they're defending Biden, but I doubt that this was Twitter's intent. I think that trying to police these things now will simply dig themselves deeper into a hole.

RIMR 7y ago

Nothing you said here was true. Twitter's #1 goal is to generate profit through advertising. You can pay for a slot on the "trending" list. They have custom "emojis" for paying customers' trends. They aren't putting free speech first - they actively suspend accounts for making jokes about their largest advertisers. Remember the Starbucks / Steve King debacle where Steve King thought that a Starbucks store manager was firing people for saying "Merry Christmas"? Twitter banned the satirist who made the joke, saying he had "impersonated the Starbucks brand" by falsely claiming to be an employee. (https://www.newsweek.com/steve-king-starbucks-merry-christmas-fake-meme-shock-facebook-war-christmas-1477748 https://www.newsweek.com/steve-king-starbucks-merry-christma...) It isn't a "public utility". It's a privately-owned social media website that operates in whatever way it has to to produce profit for shareholders. The public doesn't own the platform and has zero governance of how it works. Your ability to mute/block/unfollow accounts does not change this. Twitter is already a "revenue-maximizing ad-filled trashfire" in every way that matters.

saluki 7y ago

If they saturate Twitter with ads I think we could see a new twitter, small team, simple basic ads to pay salaries and keep the app running smooth. Same with Google Search, someone could just create Classic Search, what Google used to be, a few simple ads and relevant search results. I think there is an opportunity for new companies to get back to basics (minimal ads + privacy) with lots of sites/services we used to love but have turned in to screens full of ads and selling user data.

annadane 7y ago

I mean they did start publicly displaying "likes". That's what retweet is for. They're not immune to bullshit design decisions

btrettel 7y ago

> It really is an incredible public utility provided you liberally mute/bloctk/unfollow all the petty fighting and find good people. How do you find good people on Twitter? My interests are esoteric and as far as I can tell not represented on Twitter. I've read people assert that most every interest is covered on Twitter, but that's not even close to true as far as I can tell. https://ruben.verborgh.org/blog/2012/10/25/social-media-as-spotlight-on-your-research/ https://ruben.verborgh.org/blog/2012/10/25/social-media-as-s... > virtually every topic is covered. The connection between butterfly wings and sea snails? Check. The latest trends in space law? Check. In fact, every niche has its Tweeters because of the long tail effect. And if you’re researching something really rare and unique, well, congratulations—you get to be a pioneer as a first online news source on your topic! I don't see a reason to be a "pioneer" on someone else's platform (with character limits, etc.) when I think publishing a website on my interests would better reach people with the same interests.

im3w1l 7y ago

As a user, the people who's opinions I wanted to read posted about day to day matters. And the people who's day to day matters I wanted to read about posted opinions. As a non-user, I'm affected negatively by all of the crazies that are radicalized on twitter.

robotnikman 7y ago

That's my biggest concern with Twitters future right now. It already does what it does best, why should new and unnecessary features be added, and like you said Jack seems to understand that. The Investors however think otherwise, since unfortunately the tech industry has adopted the unnecessary change for changes sake for the last decade. I can already see what such a mentality has done to many other sites, and In the end it drives away the core users of the platform. I can already see this in progress with Reddit for example.