7 ms·

The problem, if it is even a problem, is that 99% of the reason we initially sought out honey no longer exists. We liked it because it was the purest source of

The problem, if it is even a problem, is that 99% of the reason we initially sought out honey no longer exists. We liked it because it was the purest source of sugar that was available. We didn't care that it happened to be bee vomit flavored with a bit of plant sperm, or that we were exploiting the reproductive strategies of flowering plants, we just wanted the sweet. This is similar with maple syrup, which comes from sugar maple trees. We sought it out for the sugar. Now that it is a really, really expensive way to get sugar, we still love it. Nevermind that other trees produce very similar flavors. Ever try birch tablets? They taste a lot like maple, probably just as complex a flavor, but of course they need regular sugar to sweeten them because birch trees make plenty of flavor, but not much in the way of sugar. Still, we seek out pure maple syrup because of tradition. Now that we have far cheaper and purer sources of sugar, we still want honey, but again, more for traditional reasons than anything else. We try to convince ourselves of the benefits, because we really want to keep these traditional foods in our lives. And while we don't want it to be fake, we also can't actually tell the difference if it is. This just lends itself to fraud.

smt88 7y ago
Some farmers in places with depleted pollinators have to ship honeybees in to their fields. Harvesting honey from those bees makes that cheaper. Even without that usage, harvesting honey can be harmless to bees and benefit surrounding plant life. That makes it one of the best (if not the best) sources of concentrated sugar from an environmental perspective.
- robbrown451 7y ago
  From an environmental perspective, sure. But not from an economic perspective. That's great if they can sell it and make money to subsidize the other part of their business (pollination). But if the economics aren't there, that's unrealistic. Remember, honey bees harvest honey as food for themselves during winter. If you take away their honey, then you need to feed them sugar. The most practical thing is to leave the honey for the bees, and make sugar for humans from other sources that are cheaper (can, beats etc). If honey has some amazing benefit for humans that can't be replicated (whether flavor or health), fine, but the fact that so many can't tell the difference tells me that that isn't sustainable.
  - totalZero 7y ago
    Honey sells at a premium to refined sugar. Your argument doesn't make any sense.
    - 1123581321 7y ago
      This is a discussion of an article about the price of real honey potentially falling below sustainable levels. Below those levels, sugar may still cost less but the farmers may not find the operation worthwhile due to other costs.
    - robbrown451 7y ago
      Honey sells at a premium, sure, as does flavored sugar that people think is honey. I think you're missing my point but I don't have time to elaborate.
  - markdown 7y ago
    > Remember, honey bees harvest honey as food for themselves during winter. This is only in some parts of the world. My bees have never known winter.
    - robbrown451 7y ago
      So why do bees go to so much effort to make honey? To please humans?
      - markdown 7y ago
        They're saving for a rainy day.
alecst 7y ago
Well, I like honey because good honey tastes different from plain sugar. Traveling in Greece I tasted some honeys that were unlike anything I had ever tasted before, ranging from bitter, to floral, to earthy. It's the sweetness, sure, but not only the sweetness.
- lmm 7y ago
  Do you like (sweetened) birch? Why or why not?
- robbrown451 7y ago
  I suspect you can get equal or better flavors elsewhere. If it comes from the clover, couldn't you just get them from the flowers? I'm not suggesting honey flavors have no benefit, but it just seems odd that we have chosen those specific flavors as being tasty (honey and maple), when their primary attraction was that they came with sugar which was otherwise scarce (but no longer is).
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    But that's all flavor is. Yes it's an obsolete sense, but we are animals not computers. We can't download a new taste program to change what we like.
    - robbrown451 7y ago
      Are you saying that desire for honey is hard wired into us? I believe that's true for sugar, but not the additional flavors in honey. Anyway, people buy fake honey simply because they think it is honey. So I don't think it is the specific taste that you can only get from actual honey. Most people these days buy fake maple syrup (since real is so expensive), and tests have shown most can't tell the difference from real, and many prefer the fake.
      - alecst 7y ago
        Rob I'm not disagreeing with your greater point but do you mind linking me to some of these taste tests with maple syrup? I could only find one in a cursory search online and it was between two people. Sorry to bug you!
LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago
I like birch sap/juice/water with mint like here https://www.amazon.de/Dovgan-Birkensaft-mit-Minzgeschmack-Pack/dp/B01BWNIZCI/ https://www.amazon.de/Dovgan-Birkensaft-mit-Minzgeschmack-Pa... Probably not the "real" thing like the locals who produce it have, but as a city dweller i'm happy to be able to put it in my shopping cart. Once exotic and only to be had in russian speciality markets, it popped up in larger supermarkets with a full sortiment in the russian isles, and in the last few weeks even Lidl had it.
- rolph 7y ago
  and guess what, bees go nuts over stuff like that. if you have access to a lot of raw birch sap you can have birch honey which is dark and robust, and quite dear unless you have acreage of birch trees and a ^lot^ of bees in spring.

smt88 7y ago

Some farmers in places with depleted pollinators have to ship honeybees in to their fields. Harvesting honey from those bees makes that cheaper. Even without that usage, harvesting honey can be harmless to bees and benefit surrounding plant life. That makes it one of the best (if not the best) sources of concentrated sugar from an environmental perspective.

robbrown451 7y ago
From an environmental perspective, sure. But not from an economic perspective. That's great if they can sell it and make money to subsidize the other part of their business (pollination). But if the economics aren't there, that's unrealistic. Remember, honey bees harvest honey as food for themselves during winter. If you take away their honey, then you need to feed them sugar. The most practical thing is to leave the honey for the bees, and make sugar for humans from other sources that are cheaper (can, beats etc). If honey has some amazing benefit for humans that can't be replicated (whether flavor or health), fine, but the fact that so many can't tell the difference tells me that that isn't sustainable.
- totalZero 7y ago
  Honey sells at a premium to refined sugar. Your argument doesn't make any sense.
  - 1123581321 7y ago
    This is a discussion of an article about the price of real honey potentially falling below sustainable levels. Below those levels, sugar may still cost less but the farmers may not find the operation worthwhile due to other costs.
  - robbrown451 7y ago
    Honey sells at a premium, sure, as does flavored sugar that people think is honey. I think you're missing my point but I don't have time to elaborate.
- markdown 7y ago
  > Remember, honey bees harvest honey as food for themselves during winter. This is only in some parts of the world. My bees have never known winter.
  - robbrown451 7y ago
    So why do bees go to so much effort to make honey? To please humans?
    - markdown 7y ago
      They're saving for a rainy day.

alecst 7y ago

Well, I like honey because good honey tastes different from plain sugar. Traveling in Greece I tasted some honeys that were unlike anything I had ever tasted before, ranging from bitter, to floral, to earthy. It's the sweetness, sure, but not only the sweetness.

lmm 7y ago
Do you like (sweetened) birch? Why or why not?
robbrown451 7y ago
I suspect you can get equal or better flavors elsewhere. If it comes from the clover, couldn't you just get them from the flowers? I'm not suggesting honey flavors have no benefit, but it just seems odd that we have chosen those specific flavors as being tasty (honey and maple), when their primary attraction was that they came with sugar which was otherwise scarce (but no longer is).
- lonelappde 7y ago
  But that's all flavor is. Yes it's an obsolete sense, but we are animals not computers. We can't download a new taste program to change what we like.
  - robbrown451 7y ago
    Are you saying that desire for honey is hard wired into us? I believe that's true for sugar, but not the additional flavors in honey. Anyway, people buy fake honey simply because they think it is honey. So I don't think it is the specific taste that you can only get from actual honey. Most people these days buy fake maple syrup (since real is so expensive), and tests have shown most can't tell the difference from real, and many prefer the fake.
    - alecst 7y ago
      Rob I'm not disagreeing with your greater point but do you mind linking me to some of these taste tests with maple syrup? I could only find one in a cursory search online and it was between two people. Sorry to bug you!

LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago

I like birch sap/juice/water with mint like here https://www.amazon.de/Dovgan-Birkensaft-mit-Minzgeschmack-Pack/dp/B01BWNIZCI/ https://www.amazon.de/Dovgan-Birkensaft-mit-Minzgeschmack-Pa... Probably not the "real" thing like the locals who produce it have, but as a city dweller i'm happy to be able to put it in my shopping cart. Once exotic and only to be had in russian speciality markets, it popped up in larger supermarkets with a full sortiment in the russian isles, and in the last few weeks even Lidl had it.

rolph 7y ago
and guess what, bees go nuts over stuff like that. if you have access to a lot of raw birch sap you can have birch honey which is dark and robust, and quite dear unless you have acreage of birch trees and a ^lot^ of bees in spring.