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I have worked for almost 15 years in SV at multiple tech companies (FANG and non-FANG) and at all the places, I have seen health insurance, at least 15 vacation

I have worked for almost 15 years in SV at multiple tech companies (FANG and non-FANG) and at all the places, I have seen health insurance, at least 15 vacation days per year, 9-10 holidays and generous salary to pay off the student debt. So your comment just reads like a somewhat inaccurate meme.

atticmanatee 7y ago
Here's the thing: most companies in Europe also provide private health insurance, almost double of those 15 days and more or less the same holidays (which are state defined and if not provided, must be paid at 150% to 200% the normal rate - depends between country). This, of course, does not account for the entire gap in wages between both sides of the Atlantic, but it does weigh on it.
- RestlessMind 7y ago
  Sure and the salary differential probably trumps those extra vacation days. According to levels.fyi[1], median compensation package for a software engineer in SF bay area is $237,000. That is a very big number even accounting for health insurance premiums, California taxes and the cost of living here. Can you please share a few European locations which offer a better deal than this? AFAIK: London has shitty salaries and slightly lower CoL than SF, Paris / Berlin / Barcelona have even shittier salaries with much lower CoL but higher taxes, Zurich has comparable salaries and lower taxes but as much or higher CoL. [1] https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/San-Francisco-Bay-Area/ https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/San-Franci...
  - ginko 7y ago
    What's the point of all that money when you don't get any time to spend it? edit: I know this sounds flippant and like sour grapes, but I'm actually in the process of looking for a new job. Many of the best fitting job offers for my qualification are in the States, but the lack of vacation days, long work hours, etc. are a MAJOR deal breaker for me. With 15 vacation days I could see my family back home once per year during the Christmas holidays and maybe have 1.5 weeks for some short trip somewhere during the year. That's it.
    - exceptione 7y ago
      Why don't you negotiate those extra days? If the offer is good enough you may even agree to take extra days off as unpaid leave.
- exceptione 7y ago
  > most companies in Europe also provide private health insurance, Really? What countries do? I haven't come across that in western Europe so far.
sentenza 7y ago
You are comparing the best the US has to offer with the standard for European employees. Here in Germany, you have health insurance, no student debt, multi-month paid maternity/paternity leave, 30 days of vacation per annum, paid sick leave, multiple bank holidays. Notice how I didn't specify a company or location? Because this is the standard for every full-time employee in the whole country, irrespective of location or profession. The German model has two draw-backs: Pay never reaches the levels in the US and it is relatively hard to land your fist job. Also, some gig economy jobs fall through the cracks. For an honest comparison and a complete picture, you can't take a software engineer from SV and compare it to a software engineer from Berlin. At least not just. For a complete picture, you should also compare a software engineer from Boise to a software engineer from Düsseldorf. And a call center employee from Oklahoma with a call center employee from Mecklemburg-Vorpommern. The ones who "made it" will always be better off in the US. But everybody else, not so much.
- RestlessMind 7y ago
  If you want to compare worst or average of the US, why not compare it to the worst or average of Europe - say, Romania or Spain or Moldova or Greece? Why compare it to one of the best places in Europe? Or, to use your words - the Germans will always be better off in Europe. But everybody else, not so much.
  - raverbashing 7y ago
    The EU is probably not as homogenous as the US, still, in Bucharest, yearly salary is 20kEUR (92kRON) for your average Sw Eng (not to mention cost of living would be low).
- Tomte 7y ago
  While 30 days vacation is kind-of standard, the statutory minimum is 20, and I've had job offers fresh out of university where employers offered me only 26 days. I knew that I could easily get another job offering the "standard" 30, but I'm sure that quite a few graduates fall into that trap.
ck425 7y ago
Is 15 days holiday considered a lot?! In the uk the legal minimum is 28 days but most tech jobs have around 30-35 plus the ability to buy more.
ginko 7y ago
15 vacation days is supposed to be good? I have 30 vacation days + 20 extra days for sabbatical every 4 years. How do you even do longer 3-4 week trips with a limited mount of vacation like that?

atticmanatee 7y ago

Here's the thing: most companies in Europe also provide private health insurance, almost double of those 15 days and more or less the same holidays (which are state defined and if not provided, must be paid at 150% to 200% the normal rate - depends between country). This, of course, does not account for the entire gap in wages between both sides of the Atlantic, but it does weigh on it.

RestlessMind 7y ago
Sure and the salary differential probably trumps those extra vacation days. According to levels.fyi[1], median compensation package for a software engineer in SF bay area is $237,000. That is a very big number even accounting for health insurance premiums, California taxes and the cost of living here. Can you please share a few European locations which offer a better deal than this? AFAIK: London has shitty salaries and slightly lower CoL than SF, Paris / Berlin / Barcelona have even shittier salaries with much lower CoL but higher taxes, Zurich has comparable salaries and lower taxes but as much or higher CoL. [1] https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/San-Francisco-Bay-Area/ https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/San-Franci...
- ginko 7y ago
  What's the point of all that money when you don't get any time to spend it? edit: I know this sounds flippant and like sour grapes, but I'm actually in the process of looking for a new job. Many of the best fitting job offers for my qualification are in the States, but the lack of vacation days, long work hours, etc. are a MAJOR deal breaker for me. With 15 vacation days I could see my family back home once per year during the Christmas holidays and maybe have 1.5 weeks for some short trip somewhere during the year. That's it.
  - exceptione 7y ago
    Why don't you negotiate those extra days? If the offer is good enough you may even agree to take extra days off as unpaid leave.
exceptione 7y ago
> most companies in Europe also provide private health insurance, Really? What countries do? I haven't come across that in western Europe so far.

sentenza 7y ago

You are comparing the best the US has to offer with the standard for European employees. Here in Germany, you have health insurance, no student debt, multi-month paid maternity/paternity leave, 30 days of vacation per annum, paid sick leave, multiple bank holidays. Notice how I didn't specify a company or location? Because this is the standard for every full-time employee in the whole country, irrespective of location or profession. The German model has two draw-backs: Pay never reaches the levels in the US and it is relatively hard to land your fist job. Also, some gig economy jobs fall through the cracks. For an honest comparison and a complete picture, you can't take a software engineer from SV and compare it to a software engineer from Berlin. At least not just. For a complete picture, you should also compare a software engineer from Boise to a software engineer from Düsseldorf. And a call center employee from Oklahoma with a call center employee from Mecklemburg-Vorpommern. The ones who "made it" will always be better off in the US. But everybody else, not so much.

RestlessMind 7y ago
If you want to compare worst or average of the US, why not compare it to the worst or average of Europe - say, Romania or Spain or Moldova or Greece? Why compare it to one of the best places in Europe? Or, to use your words - the Germans will always be better off in Europe. But everybody else, not so much.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  The EU is probably not as homogenous as the US, still, in Bucharest, yearly salary is 20kEUR (92kRON) for your average Sw Eng (not to mention cost of living would be low).
Tomte 7y ago
While 30 days vacation is kind-of standard, the statutory minimum is 20, and I've had job offers fresh out of university where employers offered me only 26 days. I knew that I could easily get another job offering the "standard" 30, but I'm sure that quite a few graduates fall into that trap.

ck425 7y ago

Is 15 days holiday considered a lot?! In the uk the legal minimum is 28 days but most tech jobs have around 30-35 plus the ability to buy more.

ginko 7y ago

15 vacation days is supposed to be good? I have 30 vacation days + 20 extra days for sabbatical every 4 years. How do you even do longer 3-4 week trips with a limited mount of vacation like that?