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Extracting pure hydrogen never seemed like a problem to me. It’s always been safely leveraging it as a power source. Hydrocarbons are extremely stable comparat

Extracting pure hydrogen never seemed like a problem to me. It’s always been safely leveraging it as a power source. Hydrocarbons are extremely stable comparatively. Fuel cell catalyst material has been cost prohibitive. Interesting research but I don’t understand the commercial value.

adrianN 7y ago
You can always make Methane from Hydrogen.
- ghouse 7y ago
  But cost effectively? Even with free H2, seems the CH4 is expensive to produce.
clouddrover 7y ago
> Fuel cell catalyst material has been cost prohibitive. Maybe, maybe not. Lots of people have been working on low cost fuel cells: https://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/04/pani-20110421.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/04/pani-20110421.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/01/20160115-udel.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/01/20160115-udel.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/12/20191216-suryanto.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/12/20191216-suryanto.h... Toyota thinks they can build fuel cell cars cheaper than battery electrics: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26050/exclusive-toyota-hydrogen-boss-explains-how-fuel-cells-can-achieve-corolla-costs https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26050/exclusive-toyota-hydroge... > Interesting research but I don’t understand the commercial value. They are more uses for hydrogen than just fueling vehicles. For example, you can use hydrogen in steel production: https://www.en-former.com/en/hydrogen-revolution-steel-production/ https://www.en-former.com/en/hydrogen-revolution-steel-produ...
- Ericson2314 7y ago
  > That came when in 2003 Hirose’s boss Mitsuhisa Kato told him that “it’s time to join the enemy” and switch from hybrid to working on hydrogen. Hahahaha
sonium 7y ago
The technical term for this is "water splitting" and there are about 20000 papers published on the topic per year. So at least the ones providing money to academia are convinced that it is a problem worth solving. FWIW, the professor I knew working in this field and also owning a startup in the field recently switched from a hydrogen powered car to battery power. However as others noted, hydrogen is great to be converted to liquid fuel, because you won't be flying transatlantic on battery power any time soon.
nabla9 7y ago
> Extracting pure never seemed like a problem to me But then it's just energy carrier. You must use other sources of energy to produce it. The process described produces hydrogen directly from the sun.
- nicoburns 7y ago
  With renewables, carrying the energy is the biggest problem we have. Producing enough is entirely feasiblr with current technology.
  - raverbashing 7y ago
    It is. But one "easy" way of transporting it is throwing it into the electrical grid. I don't think we'll have hydrogen cars necessarily, but if you can produce H2 easily, you can generate electricity with it.
    - ncmncm 7y ago
      Liquified hydrogen is the best possible fuel for aircraft, newly practical since advances in aerogel production that make well-insulated tanks practical. It will unfortunately need new airframes, because even liquified it needs a fair bit more room than diesel. But once those are going, nobody will be able to compete with them. The hydrogen can be produced right at the airport from solar electric at minimum spot prices. With this development, some of it can be produced without the round trip through electrics.
  - amelius 7y ago
    > With renewables, carrying the energy is the biggest problem we have. Storing energy is the biggest problem we have. (Hydrogen can help with that.)
- djrogers 7y ago
  Not sure where you’re getting this: > directly from the sun As that’s not what the article describes. FTA: “ efficiently producing 25 times more hydrogen fuel by using a specific type of rust and light source. Scientists achieved this new technique by using light from a mercury/xenon lamp” So no - it’s not “the sun”, and it undoubtedly requires more electricity to run the lamp than can be harvested from the hydrogen produced.
pjc50 7y ago
Well, that's what the research is for, to determine if it can be done with cheaper materials? You don't have to consume it in a fuel cell, it can be burned directly, and it's an input to some industrial chemical processes. It can also be added to the existing natural gas system in small quantities without modification, like the use of ethanol in petrol. (The real problem is that fracked gas is so cheap) The general subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas

adrianN 7y ago

You can always make Methane from Hydrogen.

ghouse 7y ago
But cost effectively? Even with free H2, seems the CH4 is expensive to produce.

clouddrover 7y ago

> Fuel cell catalyst material has been cost prohibitive. Maybe, maybe not. Lots of people have been working on low cost fuel cells: https://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/04/pani-20110421.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/04/pani-20110421.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/01/20160115-udel.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/01/20160115-udel.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/12/20191216-suryanto.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/12/20191216-suryanto.h... Toyota thinks they can build fuel cell cars cheaper than battery electrics: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26050/exclusive-toyota-hydrogen-boss-explains-how-fuel-cells-can-achieve-corolla-costs https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26050/exclusive-toyota-hydroge... > Interesting research but I don’t understand the commercial value. They are more uses for hydrogen than just fueling vehicles. For example, you can use hydrogen in steel production: https://www.en-former.com/en/hydrogen-revolution-steel-production/ https://www.en-former.com/en/hydrogen-revolution-steel-produ...

Ericson2314 7y ago
> That came when in 2003 Hirose’s boss Mitsuhisa Kato told him that “it’s time to join the enemy” and switch from hybrid to working on hydrogen. Hahahaha

sonium 7y ago

The technical term for this is "water splitting" and there are about 20000 papers published on the topic per year. So at least the ones providing money to academia are convinced that it is a problem worth solving. FWIW, the professor I knew working in this field and also owning a startup in the field recently switched from a hydrogen powered car to battery power. However as others noted, hydrogen is great to be converted to liquid fuel, because you won't be flying transatlantic on battery power any time soon.

nabla9 7y ago

> Extracting pure never seemed like a problem to me But then it's just energy carrier. You must use other sources of energy to produce it. The process described produces hydrogen directly from the sun.

nicoburns 7y ago
With renewables, carrying the energy is the biggest problem we have. Producing enough is entirely feasiblr with current technology.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  It is. But one "easy" way of transporting it is throwing it into the electrical grid. I don't think we'll have hydrogen cars necessarily, but if you can produce H2 easily, you can generate electricity with it.
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    Liquified hydrogen is the best possible fuel for aircraft, newly practical since advances in aerogel production that make well-insulated tanks practical. It will unfortunately need new airframes, because even liquified it needs a fair bit more room than diesel. But once those are going, nobody will be able to compete with them. The hydrogen can be produced right at the airport from solar electric at minimum spot prices. With this development, some of it can be produced without the round trip through electrics.
- amelius 7y ago
  > With renewables, carrying the energy is the biggest problem we have. Storing energy is the biggest problem we have. (Hydrogen can help with that.)
djrogers 7y ago
Not sure where you’re getting this: > directly from the sun As that’s not what the article describes. FTA: “ efficiently producing 25 times more hydrogen fuel by using a specific type of rust and light source. Scientists achieved this new technique by using light from a mercury/xenon lamp” So no - it’s not “the sun”, and it undoubtedly requires more electricity to run the lamp than can be harvested from the hydrogen produced.

pjc50 7y ago

Well, that's what the research is for, to determine if it can be done with cheaper materials? You don't have to consume it in a fuel cell, it can be burned directly, and it's an input to some industrial chemical processes. It can also be added to the existing natural gas system in small quantities without modification, like the use of ethanol in petrol. (The real problem is that fracked gas is so cheap) The general subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-gas