5 ms·

I think a more relevant headline would be "Situations with a power differential have a sexual abuse problem". This applies to teacher/student, boss/employee, th

I think a more relevant headline would be "Situations with a power differential have a sexual abuse problem". This applies to teacher/student, boss/employee, therapist/patient, parent/child and many other situations.

wizardforhire 7y ago
Yeah but that’s not as good of a headline /s
- perl4ever 7y ago
  People should be careful about scapegoating a drug or technique, but this headline reminds me of another thing that worries me. People seem unnaturally enthused about low dose ketamine recently, in mental health circles. I can't help thinking, that it has the potential for something kind of similar to the opioid crisis. It may be too paranoid, but I sometimes imagine there are forces in the shadows that want this, because having lots of legitimate prescriptions out there would make it easier to victimize people.
  - WalterSear 7y ago
    As someone whose been on low dose ketamine for over a year, I don't think this is a relevant concern. Or that the enthusiasm is unwarranted. The intoxication involved is slightly more than a couple of beers. It's not habit forming, apart from being profoundly effective.
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      "The intoxication involved is slightly more than a couple of beers. It's not habit forming, apart from being profoundly effective. " Some people get addicted to alcohol, some to opioids, some to chocolate so it wouldn't be surprising if Ketamine filled spot for some people. This shouldn't stop us from using it though.
      - girvo 7y ago
        Alcohol and opiates/opioids both build physical dependence on them. This is markedly difference to “chocolate addiction”, and ketamine does not cause physical dependence either. Compulsive behaviour with regards to a stimulus isn’t addiction on its own, but it is bad!
        loeg 7y ago
        Specifically, addiction is a disease where people cannot self-moderate or reduce use despite actual harm to themselves. Chronic use, without harm, is not addiction.
      - Dylan16807 7y ago
        How many people would get addicted to alcohol if they never had more than 2-3 beers in a session? Because I don't expect many people to over-dose their prescription before they get addicted.
    - perl4ever 7y ago
      "It's not habit forming" Maybe not. I wasn't expressing any concern about that.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    >It may be too paranoid, but I sometimes imagine there are forces in the shadows that want this, because having lots of legitimate prescriptions out there would make it easier to victimize people Who would organize/benefit such a conspiracy? The opioid epidemic was brought on by pharmaceutical corporations trying to make more money, while ketamine is likely already available as a generic that won't make anyone rich. Being able to imagine some way this could be a scam isn't enough. Some kind of evidence us needed as if you're wrong, people will continue to suffer without the help they need.
  - ketamine__ 7y ago
    It has no potential to be anything like the opioid crisis. It's virtually impossible to find any case of ketamine causing a fatality from its administration.
neonate 7y ago
That's true, but it doesn't make this article (or headline) irrelevant. There's relevance in discussion the situation in different contexts.
superhuzza 7y ago
I kind of doubt you even opened the article... 1. The article specifically details why psychedelics are a relevant factor (because the patient is literally intoxicated, which is not usual in therapy). 2. The author acknowledges and addresses the fact that abuse happens in other forms of therapy, but notes that there are specific, relevant differences. For example, the protections offered by traditional therapy vs psychedelic therapy (trials including non-licensed 'therapists', the illegality of non-approved sessions etc.) 3. Not all of those situations are at all the same. There are different considerations when it's teachers/students, boss/employees etc. If you generalize enough, there's no difference between a human and a chimpanzee - it's all about the desired level of investigation.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  I have read the article bur I don't see much of a difference. There are some specific factors to psychedelics but overall it's the lack of discipline by the practitioner that's the real problem.
- girvo 7y ago
  Although the specific case in the article goes back and forward as to whether the alleged sexual abuse happened during the psychedelic sessions. MAPS says yes, the court filing says maybe, unless I’m reading it wrong? It’s damned plausible, though
- heavenlyblue 7y ago
  >> For example, the protections offered by traditional therapy vs psychedelic therapy (trials including non-licensed 'therapists', the illegality of non-approved sessions etc.) I think you’re conflating two different issues here.

wizardforhire 7y ago

Yeah but that’s not as good of a headline /s

perl4ever 7y ago
People should be careful about scapegoating a drug or technique, but this headline reminds me of another thing that worries me. People seem unnaturally enthused about low dose ketamine recently, in mental health circles. I can't help thinking, that it has the potential for something kind of similar to the opioid crisis. It may be too paranoid, but I sometimes imagine there are forces in the shadows that want this, because having lots of legitimate prescriptions out there would make it easier to victimize people.
- WalterSear 7y ago
  As someone whose been on low dose ketamine for over a year, I don't think this is a relevant concern. Or that the enthusiasm is unwarranted. The intoxication involved is slightly more than a couple of beers. It's not habit forming, apart from being profoundly effective.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    "The intoxication involved is slightly more than a couple of beers. It's not habit forming, apart from being profoundly effective. " Some people get addicted to alcohol, some to opioids, some to chocolate so it wouldn't be surprising if Ketamine filled spot for some people. This shouldn't stop us from using it though.
    - girvo 7y ago
      Alcohol and opiates/opioids both build physical dependence on them. This is markedly difference to “chocolate addiction”, and ketamine does not cause physical dependence either. Compulsive behaviour with regards to a stimulus isn’t addiction on its own, but it is bad!
      - loeg 7y ago
        Specifically, addiction is a disease where people cannot self-moderate or reduce use despite actual harm to themselves. Chronic use, without harm, is not addiction.
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      How many people would get addicted to alcohol if they never had more than 2-3 beers in a session? Because I don't expect many people to over-dose their prescription before they get addicted.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    "It's not habit forming" Maybe not. I wasn't expressing any concern about that.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  >It may be too paranoid, but I sometimes imagine there are forces in the shadows that want this, because having lots of legitimate prescriptions out there would make it easier to victimize people Who would organize/benefit such a conspiracy? The opioid epidemic was brought on by pharmaceutical corporations trying to make more money, while ketamine is likely already available as a generic that won't make anyone rich. Being able to imagine some way this could be a scam isn't enough. Some kind of evidence us needed as if you're wrong, people will continue to suffer without the help they need.
- ketamine__ 7y ago
  It has no potential to be anything like the opioid crisis. It's virtually impossible to find any case of ketamine causing a fatality from its administration.

neonate 7y ago

That's true, but it doesn't make this article (or headline) irrelevant. There's relevance in discussion the situation in different contexts.

superhuzza 7y ago

I kind of doubt you even opened the article... 1. The article specifically details why psychedelics are a relevant factor (because the patient is literally intoxicated, which is not usual in therapy). 2. The author acknowledges and addresses the fact that abuse happens in other forms of therapy, but notes that there are specific, relevant differences. For example, the protections offered by traditional therapy vs psychedelic therapy (trials including non-licensed 'therapists', the illegality of non-approved sessions etc.) 3. Not all of those situations are at all the same. There are different considerations when it's teachers/students, boss/employees etc. If you generalize enough, there's no difference between a human and a chimpanzee - it's all about the desired level of investigation.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
I have read the article bur I don't see much of a difference. There are some specific factors to psychedelics but overall it's the lack of discipline by the practitioner that's the real problem.
girvo 7y ago
Although the specific case in the article goes back and forward as to whether the alleged sexual abuse happened during the psychedelic sessions. MAPS says yes, the court filing says maybe, unless I’m reading it wrong? It’s damned plausible, though
heavenlyblue 7y ago
>> For example, the protections offered by traditional therapy vs psychedelic therapy (trials including non-licensed 'therapists', the illegality of non-approved sessions etc.) I think you’re conflating two different issues here.