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Serious question- how do you classify Israel as an ally? Israel didn't participate in the (bogus I must say) Iraq war, litmus test for US allies. Israel has act

Serious question- how do you classify Israel as an ally? Israel didn't participate in the (bogus I must say) Iraq war, litmus test for US allies. Israel has actually never went to war for US. Israel has actually never done anything for the US. Israel actually sunk USS liberty and killed American soldiers in the hope of pulling america into a war (by pretending it was someone else). LB Johnson was also involved but that still doesn't make Israel an ally of US.

missosoup 7y ago
Israel - US relationship is more of a parasite/host than ally/ally one.
- mirimir 7y ago
  Maybe it's more like an informal colony.
YZF 7y ago
Israel would have been happy to participate. It's the coalition of arab countries that the US formed that would not accept Israel. In fact the US pressured Israel to not retaliate to Iraqi missiles fired at them. So here's litmus test, what other country would accept a US request to not retaliate to ballistic missiles fired at them. So maybe Israel is US's only ally.
- Udik 7y ago
  Why would have Israel retaliated if the US was already doing the job for them?
  - djwhsbxh 7y ago
    Because only Europeans are that lazy. Most countrys with the ability to do so prefer to handle their own defense since an ally might not handle it the same way you would or with the same priorities.
    - Veen 7y ago
      What an ignorant comment. Hundreds of British soldiers died fighting alongside America in Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia. (Plus hundreds more in Ireland killed by terrorist groups in part funded by donations from US citizens)
      - dang 7y ago
        Please don't feed an egregious comment by replying. Flag it instead. This is in the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
  - YZF 7y ago
    It wasn't doing such a great job. It was telling Israel sit tight we're going after those launchers and every day missiles kept falling. There was fear and tremendous public pressure for action.
mirimir 7y ago
That was during the Six Day War in '67. As I recall, the US had threatened to wipe out Israel's air forces if they attacked Cairo. And the US did that because the Soviets had threatened to nuke Tel Aviv if Israel did that, given their alliance with Egypt. So that was perhaps the context for the Liberty attack. And it could have triggered WWIII.
mschuster91 7y ago
> Serious question- how do you classify Israel as an ally? Number of reasons: 1) History. Us Germans tried to exterminate all Jews (and thank God we failed), while the USA and Great Britain, the colonial power of Palestine, fought against Germany. It made sense that after WW2, Israel was founded as a "safe haven" for Jewish life, backed by USA/UK. 2) Israel is the only real democracy in the entire region. Yes, Netanyahu has attacked democratic institution and basic democratic decency, but still: Israel is and likely will remain a democracy, a democracy allied to the US right in the region where the biggest oil reserves are. 3) While Israel does have their own weapons program, they are a good customer of US arms. Some of their budget is actually paid by US Congress, but well, as long as the end result is that Israel uses US weapons and the people employed in the districts of the Congressmen approving these deals keep their jobs, there is no real problem. 4) Intelligence service cooperation. The Mossad is one of the best intelligence services there is, rivaled IMO only by NSA/CIA.
- Udik 7y ago
  I think the GP asked which actions by Israel show that it is an ally of the US, so the first point seems absolutely irrelevant. Btw, the Soviet Union had an equal role fighting Germany in WW2, liberated Auschwitz and was the first country to recognise Israel. Is Israel a special ally of Russia? No. The second point is also totally irrelevant: the other best ally of the US in the region, Saudi Arabia, is an absolute monarchy. The US never had a problem overthrowing democratic governments to replace them with dictatorships or supporting ferocious dictators as long as they advanced its goals. This talk of democracy as a value to support is just spin to justify attacking some countries, when it suits. The third point is also irrelevant: Israel receives almost $4 billion is military aid from the US- this proves that the US is an ally of Israel, but again, is Israel an ally of the US? The fourth point is the only one that barely holds. Yes, the Israeli intelligence cooperates with the US (but also spies on the US at the highest levels: see for example [1]- something that should have been a huge scandal and received almost zero reporting). But one wonders how much of Israeli intelligence helps solving problems that Israel itself has created or that are relevant to the US only because Israel is in the area. 1 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house-spying-devices-1491351 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house...
myth_drannon 7y ago
Israel did join the war, it just didn't advertise it. You can read plenty of accounts on it. Boots on the ground, mostly Scad launcher hunters.
stale2002 7y ago
> how do you classify Israel as an ally? Because the US government classifies them as an ally. According to the official, military experts and generals, they treat Israel as a military ally.
fortran77 7y ago
It's already new new week here in Tel Aviv, but I'd suspect that most of Hacker News readers are in the United States. And it's telling that the people who hate Israel and support terrorism in the mid-east wait until the Jewish Sabbath, when Jews don't use computers or write, to further anti-Israel and anti-Jewish propaganda.
- cma 7y ago
  I only see the comment mention Israel, not Judaism. There’s a day of the week where a country can’t be criticized, and it extends to two days because of time zones?
  - fortran77 7y ago
    When they mention conspiracy theories that people who support Israel have undue "control" over the Congress (or bribe them, as someone here said), they're using old anti-Semitic tropes, as you are well aware.
    - cma 7y ago
      His post doesn't say any of that, as you are well aware.

missosoup 7y ago

Israel - US relationship is more of a parasite/host than ally/ally one.

mirimir 7y ago
Maybe it's more like an informal colony.

YZF 7y ago

Israel would have been happy to participate. It's the coalition of arab countries that the US formed that would not accept Israel. In fact the US pressured Israel to not retaliate to Iraqi missiles fired at them. So here's litmus test, what other country would accept a US request to not retaliate to ballistic missiles fired at them. So maybe Israel is US's only ally.

Udik 7y ago
Why would have Israel retaliated if the US was already doing the job for them?
- djwhsbxh 7y ago
  Because only Europeans are that lazy. Most countrys with the ability to do so prefer to handle their own defense since an ally might not handle it the same way you would or with the same priorities.
  - Veen 7y ago
    What an ignorant comment. Hundreds of British soldiers died fighting alongside America in Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia. (Plus hundreds more in Ireland killed by terrorist groups in part funded by donations from US citizens)
    - dang 7y ago
      Please don't feed an egregious comment by replying. Flag it instead. This is in the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- YZF 7y ago
  It wasn't doing such a great job. It was telling Israel sit tight we're going after those launchers and every day missiles kept falling. There was fear and tremendous public pressure for action.

mirimir 7y ago

That was during the Six Day War in '67. As I recall, the US had threatened to wipe out Israel's air forces if they attacked Cairo. And the US did that because the Soviets had threatened to nuke Tel Aviv if Israel did that, given their alliance with Egypt. So that was perhaps the context for the Liberty attack. And it could have triggered WWIII.

mschuster91 7y ago

> Serious question- how do you classify Israel as an ally? Number of reasons: 1) History. Us Germans tried to exterminate all Jews (and thank God we failed), while the USA and Great Britain, the colonial power of Palestine, fought against Germany. It made sense that after WW2, Israel was founded as a "safe haven" for Jewish life, backed by USA/UK. 2) Israel is the only real democracy in the entire region. Yes, Netanyahu has attacked democratic institution and basic democratic decency, but still: Israel is and likely will remain a democracy, a democracy allied to the US right in the region where the biggest oil reserves are. 3) While Israel does have their own weapons program, they are a good customer of US arms. Some of their budget is actually paid by US Congress, but well, as long as the end result is that Israel uses US weapons and the people employed in the districts of the Congressmen approving these deals keep their jobs, there is no real problem. 4) Intelligence service cooperation. The Mossad is one of the best intelligence services there is, rivaled IMO only by NSA/CIA.

Udik 7y ago
I think the GP asked which actions by Israel show that it is an ally of the US, so the first point seems absolutely irrelevant. Btw, the Soviet Union had an equal role fighting Germany in WW2, liberated Auschwitz and was the first country to recognise Israel. Is Israel a special ally of Russia? No. The second point is also totally irrelevant: the other best ally of the US in the region, Saudi Arabia, is an absolute monarchy. The US never had a problem overthrowing democratic governments to replace them with dictatorships or supporting ferocious dictators as long as they advanced its goals. This talk of democracy as a value to support is just spin to justify attacking some countries, when it suits. The third point is also irrelevant: Israel receives almost $4 billion is military aid from the US- this proves that the US is an ally of Israel, but again, is Israel an ally of the US? The fourth point is the only one that barely holds. Yes, the Israeli intelligence cooperates with the US (but also spies on the US at the highest levels: see for example [1]- something that should have been a huge scandal and received almost zero reporting). But one wonders how much of Israeli intelligence helps solving problems that Israel itself has created or that are relevant to the US only because Israel is in the area. 1 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house-spying-devices-1491351 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house...

myth_drannon 7y ago

Israel did join the war, it just didn't advertise it. You can read plenty of accounts on it. Boots on the ground, mostly Scad launcher hunters.

stale2002 7y ago

> how do you classify Israel as an ally? Because the US government classifies them as an ally. According to the official, military experts and generals, they treat Israel as a military ally.

fortran77 7y ago

It's already new new week here in Tel Aviv, but I'd suspect that most of Hacker News readers are in the United States. And it's telling that the people who hate Israel and support terrorism in the mid-east wait until the Jewish Sabbath, when Jews don't use computers or write, to further anti-Israel and anti-Jewish propaganda.

cma 7y ago
I only see the comment mention Israel, not Judaism. There’s a day of the week where a country can’t be criticized, and it extends to two days because of time zones?
- fortran77 7y ago
  When they mention conspiracy theories that people who support Israel have undue "control" over the Congress (or bribe them, as someone here said), they're using old anti-Semitic tropes, as you are well aware.
  - cma 7y ago
    His post doesn't say any of that, as you are well aware.