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>>The police have far too much power in this. Why it's not the case that Google has too much power in this, by collecting data from their users without asking

by maram 7y ago

>>The police have far too much power in this. Why it's not the case that Google has too much power in this, by collecting data from their users without asking their permission?

deadmutex 7y ago
> by collecting data from their users without asking their permission It is my understanding that Google Location services asks before storing this data. My fear is that by writing blanket untrue statements like this, people that don't know better just read it as fact, and spread it. Disclaimer: Work at Google (in a different space), but everything I write here is my own opinions/views.
- Terretta 7y ago
  Your understanding may be legally correct but is pragmatically incorrect. “Normals” in no way understand they are consenting to this, and further, your employer continues to tighten the noose on users who did understand and turned it off, that products will no longer work without this data. To be clear, Google has the right to demand location data as payment for services rendered.
  - maram 7y ago
    >>Google has the right to demand location data as payment for services rendered. Sure, just let them be clear about it. By clear, I don't mean they mention it in the last line of the 29th page.
    - srtjstjsj 7y ago
      Turning on Location Services requires tabbing through pages of location-specific text before the OK button is enabled.
    - cheschire 7y ago
      They could put it in the first line and people wouldn’t read it. Pop up fatigue is getting intense. Generally nobody reads notices anymore. They just want the content or service.
      - Mary-Jane 7y ago
        ...anymore?
      - code_duck 7y ago
        This has been the situation for years. Many times I have told novice to average users that the words on pop-ups or modals sometimes actually matter and to help solve their problems, they should try reading the words.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    > To be clear, Google has the right to demand location data as payment for services rendered. I like the GDPR approach where you cannot force someone to pay with their privacy. If you want to demand payment, you can demand money.
- maram 7y ago
  >>My fear is that by writing blanket untrue statements like this, people that don't know better just read it as fact, and spread it. You are right! "people that don't know better" should do their own research on whether Google Location services ask for their permission. Here are few links: "Google records your location even when you tell it not to" https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/13/google-location-tracking-android-iphone-mobile https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/13/google-lo... "Google Collected Data on Schoolchildren Without Permission" https://www.wired.com/2015/12/google-collected-data-on-schoolchildren-without-permission/ https://www.wired.com/2015/12/google-collected-data-on-schoo... "More than 1,000 Android apps harvest data even after you deny permissions" https://www.cnet.com/news/more-than-1000-android-apps-harvest-your-data-even-after-you-deny-permissions/ https://www.cnet.com/news/more-than-1000-android-apps-harves... "Thousands of Android apps can track your phone — even if you deny permissions" https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/8/20686514/android-covert-channel-permissions-data-collection-imei-ssid-location https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/8/20686514/android-covert-ch...
  - deadmutex 7y ago
    IMO, the articles have a bunch of nuance, but the titles are a bit click-baity. E.g. from the last article "Thousands of Android apps can track your phone -- even if you deny permissions". If you just read the title, one could possibly conclude that an app can just use the location API to get location data it was denied. However, when you read the article, you end up scenarios like this: "The study also singles out photo app Shutterfly for sending actual GPS coordinates back to its servers without getting permission to track locations — by harvesting that data from your photos’ EXIF metadata — though the company denied that it gathers that data without permission in a statement to CNET." Which is much more nuanced. Some would even consider it as a bug since it is coming from a side-channel. Also the article mentions that a lot of these things are being fixed with newer versions of Android (Q in this case). However, by just quoting click-baity headlines, it gives the false impression that these products are purposely built to intrude on privacy.
- jellicle 7y ago
  > Google Location services asks before storing this data. It certainly does not. In fact, the general prompts are just along the lines of "Maps won't work unless Location Services is on. Turn it on? [Y/N]"
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
syshum 7y ago
>> collecting data from their users without asking their permission? They do, but they do it in a way that seem innocuous. Google is heavily vertically integrated, if you want to take advantage of many features in Android, you need to "allow" location tracking and collection. Most people want to use Waze, or Maps, or Reviews of Place, etc etc etc. If you do you agree to have your location tracked

by maram 7y ago

>>The police have far too much power in this. Why it's not the case that Google has too much power in this, by collecting data from their users without asking their permission?

deadmutex 7y ago

> by collecting data from their users without asking their permission It is my understanding that Google Location services asks before storing this data. My fear is that by writing blanket untrue statements like this, people that don't know better just read it as fact, and spread it. Disclaimer: Work at Google (in a different space), but everything I write here is my own opinions/views.

Terretta 7y ago
Your understanding may be legally correct but is pragmatically incorrect. “Normals” in no way understand they are consenting to this, and further, your employer continues to tighten the noose on users who did understand and turned it off, that products will no longer work without this data. To be clear, Google has the right to demand location data as payment for services rendered.
- maram 7y ago
  >>Google has the right to demand location data as payment for services rendered. Sure, just let them be clear about it. By clear, I don't mean they mention it in the last line of the 29th page.
  - srtjstjsj 7y ago
    Turning on Location Services requires tabbing through pages of location-specific text before the OK button is enabled.
  - cheschire 7y ago
    They could put it in the first line and people wouldn’t read it. Pop up fatigue is getting intense. Generally nobody reads notices anymore. They just want the content or service.
    - Mary-Jane 7y ago
      ...anymore?
    - code_duck 7y ago
      This has been the situation for years. Many times I have told novice to average users that the words on pop-ups or modals sometimes actually matter and to help solve their problems, they should try reading the words.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  > To be clear, Google has the right to demand location data as payment for services rendered. I like the GDPR approach where you cannot force someone to pay with their privacy. If you want to demand payment, you can demand money.
maram 7y ago
>>My fear is that by writing blanket untrue statements like this, people that don't know better just read it as fact, and spread it. You are right! "people that don't know better" should do their own research on whether Google Location services ask for their permission. Here are few links: "Google records your location even when you tell it not to" https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/13/google-location-tracking-android-iphone-mobile https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/13/google-lo... "Google Collected Data on Schoolchildren Without Permission" https://www.wired.com/2015/12/google-collected-data-on-schoolchildren-without-permission/ https://www.wired.com/2015/12/google-collected-data-on-schoo... "More than 1,000 Android apps harvest data even after you deny permissions" https://www.cnet.com/news/more-than-1000-android-apps-harvest-your-data-even-after-you-deny-permissions/ https://www.cnet.com/news/more-than-1000-android-apps-harves... "Thousands of Android apps can track your phone — even if you deny permissions" https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/8/20686514/android-covert-channel-permissions-data-collection-imei-ssid-location https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/8/20686514/android-covert-ch...
- deadmutex 7y ago
  IMO, the articles have a bunch of nuance, but the titles are a bit click-baity. E.g. from the last article "Thousands of Android apps can track your phone -- even if you deny permissions". If you just read the title, one could possibly conclude that an app can just use the location API to get location data it was denied. However, when you read the article, you end up scenarios like this: "The study also singles out photo app Shutterfly for sending actual GPS coordinates back to its servers without getting permission to track locations — by harvesting that data from your photos’ EXIF metadata — though the company denied that it gathers that data without permission in a statement to CNET." Which is much more nuanced. Some would even consider it as a bug since it is coming from a side-channel. Also the article mentions that a lot of these things are being fixed with newer versions of Android (Q in this case). However, by just quoting click-baity headlines, it gives the false impression that these products are purposely built to intrude on privacy.
jellicle 7y ago
> Google Location services asks before storing this data. It certainly does not. In fact, the general prompts are just along the lines of "Maps won't work unless Location Services is on. Turn it on? [Y/N]"
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

syshum 7y ago

>> collecting data from their users without asking their permission? They do, but they do it in a way that seem innocuous. Google is heavily vertically integrated, if you want to take advantage of many features in Android, you need to "allow" location tracking and collection. Most people want to use Waze, or Maps, or Reviews of Place, etc etc etc. If you do you agree to have your location tracked