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The panic buying has also trickled over to isopropanol/IPA. I needed to buy some anyway and I picked up a litre earlier this week for about £6. At the time Amaz

by joshvm 7y ago

The panic buying has also trickled over to isopropanol/IPA. I needed to buy some anyway and I picked up a litre earlier this week for about £6. At the time Amazon had a lot for sale, now they're all out. Given that consumer hand gel is basically just IPA diluted down to 60% (see edit), I also bought a few tubes of aloe vera to mix it with... I suspect a lot of other people had the same idea. It looks like there's a lot still available on eBay, so if you really want to by sanitiser, you might as well make your own. Just remember to dilute it a little, 99% won't do too much damage, but it's not particularly kind to your hands if you rub it in on purpose. It's also extremely flammable! EDIT: The WHO has published guidelines on making your own gel: https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf Interestingly Wikipedia seems to suggest that you should use at least 90% alcohol to kill flu. And that lower concentration formulations are potentially ineffective because they evaporate before killing stuff off. Hospitals use 70-95%. Obviously the higher you go, the more flammable things get. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_sanitizer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_sanitizer This article tested a number of gels vs rinses: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(02)08426-X/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... > Based on our efficacy data, we do not consider any of the tested alcohol-based hand gels to be suitable for hand antisepsis in the health-care setting because their antimicrobial efficacy may be insufficient to prevent the spread of pathogens. Future ethanol-based hand gels used in hospitals should contain at least 80% (v/v) ethanol as the active ingredient and should be as effective as the EN 1500 reference alcohol within 30 s.

xvedejas 7y ago
But my sanitizing gel says it kills 99.99% of all bacteria and viruses!
- gibolt 7y ago
  Doesn't specify the effective area. Does every use wipe out the vast majority on the planet?
- IgorPartola 7y ago
  Of course. If you throw some bacteria into a gallon of hand sanitizer then put it all in a blender to ensure good mixing, I am certain it will. But that’s not how you’d actually use it, right?
- masonic 7y ago
  ... leaving only the hardiest survivors, who now replicate in no time, now with resistance.
  - aarongolliver 7y ago
    they don't have resistance
    - masonic 7y ago
      Of course bacteria have resistance. Bacteria mutate, some random mutation will be resistant to a given antibiotic, and that new strain will propagate and dominate. Lots of people fall to understand that, which is why we have antibiotic-resistant strains of gonorrhea in the wild now.
      - aarongolliver 7y ago
        Hand sanitizers use alcohol, not the same thing as a "prescription" antibiotic. The same resistance arguments do not really apply the same way.
        masonic 7y ago
        Many use triclosan, which was even legal in the US until last year, so a lot of it is still in consumer hands.
Scoundreller 7y ago
Your Lancet link was testing against bacteria. For viruses, alcohol rubs are considered better than soap+water because it's harder to screw up alcohol rubs and viruses are easily inactivated. The big problem with alcohol rubs is that they're useless against spores, so you can still end up with a C. Difficile problem, but that's usually more of a hospital issue.
rootusrootus 7y ago
> consumer hand gel is basically just IPA diluted Unless I am mistaken, this is not the case. Hand sanitizer is based on ethanol, not isopropyl alcohol. Easier on the skin.
- swiley 7y ago
  It definitely smells more like IPA. —someone who does a lot of chemistry and drinks a lot
  - rootusrootus 7y ago
    To use Purell as an example, the SDS says it has 50-70% ethanol and 1-5% propan-2-ol. That would account for the smell, I guess.
- joshvm 7y ago
  You can use either, according to the WHO (they give recipes for both).
freepor 7y ago
Consumer hand sanitizer is almost always ethyl alcohol not isopropanol.

by joshvm 7y ago

xvedejas 7y ago

But my sanitizing gel says it kills 99.99% of all bacteria and viruses!

gibolt 7y ago
Doesn't specify the effective area. Does every use wipe out the vast majority on the planet?
IgorPartola 7y ago
Of course. If you throw some bacteria into a gallon of hand sanitizer then put it all in a blender to ensure good mixing, I am certain it will. But that’s not how you’d actually use it, right?
masonic 7y ago
... leaving only the hardiest survivors, who now replicate in no time, now with resistance.
- aarongolliver 7y ago
  they don't have resistance
  - masonic 7y ago
    Of course bacteria have resistance. Bacteria mutate, some random mutation will be resistant to a given antibiotic, and that new strain will propagate and dominate. Lots of people fall to understand that, which is why we have antibiotic-resistant strains of gonorrhea in the wild now.
    - aarongolliver 7y ago
      Hand sanitizers use alcohol, not the same thing as a "prescription" antibiotic. The same resistance arguments do not really apply the same way.
      - masonic 7y ago
        Many use triclosan, which was even legal in the US until last year, so a lot of it is still in consumer hands.

Scoundreller 7y ago

Your Lancet link was testing against bacteria. For viruses, alcohol rubs are considered better than soap+water because it's harder to screw up alcohol rubs and viruses are easily inactivated. The big problem with alcohol rubs is that they're useless against spores, so you can still end up with a C. Difficile problem, but that's usually more of a hospital issue.

rootusrootus 7y ago

> consumer hand gel is basically just IPA diluted Unless I am mistaken, this is not the case. Hand sanitizer is based on ethanol, not isopropyl alcohol. Easier on the skin.

swiley 7y ago
It definitely smells more like IPA. —someone who does a lot of chemistry and drinks a lot
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  To use Purell as an example, the SDS says it has 50-70% ethanol and 1-5% propan-2-ol. That would account for the smell, I guess.
joshvm 7y ago
You can use either, according to the WHO (they give recipes for both).

freepor 7y ago

Consumer hand sanitizer is almost always ethyl alcohol not isopropanol.