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Waymo Via

• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• mushufasa 7y ago
  There's a rideshare company called Via. Is this intentionally designed to take away their SEO?? I'd be surprised if there isn't a trademark challenge for this, they're a competitor with Waymo.
  • martythemaniak 7y ago
    There's a lot of things called Via, including a rail company
    • NotSammyHagar 7y ago
      This is way too close. I was sure this was a google project. Hopefully google will sue them for using a trademarked name too close to theirs. Or would you like to try my new credit card makers, MasterCarte (ooh, that's probably already real ;-)), Vesa and MasterChief.
      • beatgammit 7y ago
        Well, there's CreditOne for credit cards, which uses a very similar symbol as CapitalOne. I don't know the legal status of that one...
  • bratawurst 7y ago
    It is the two-thousand-year old word for “road”, and an English preposition. Anyone who picked it as a trademark for anything knew what they were getting themselves into.
    • positr0n 7y ago
      That's not how trademark law works though. Just because apples are a common, 20 million year old fruit doesn't mean Apple can't trademark the brand Apple in relation to computers and personal electronics.
      • dumbfoundded 7y ago
        Trademarks matter in context a lot. An Apple branded computer is a lot stronger than an Apple branded apple. They choose a brand name bordering on descriptive. If it's descriptive, ie "Great Computer Co.", it's pretty weak. It'll be tough to own "Via" for anything in transportation.
        • samatman 7y ago
          That would be like owning the trademark "General Electric" and selling electrical equipment...
          • ska 7y ago
            ... which is why you never see any other companies with "electric" or "electronics" in their name.
          • titanomachy 7y ago
            International Business Machines General Electric General Motors Advanced Micro Devices To be fair, all were among the first companies to make the thing they are named for.
          • dumbfoundded 7y ago
            Well, General Electric predates many of the Supreme Court rulings that establish American trademark law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Supreme_Court_trademark_case_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Supreme_...
      • fullshark 7y ago
  • aiddun 7y ago
    When I saw the headline I honestly thought Waymo had bought Via
  • jedberg 7y ago
    Ironically you can take Via to the Waymo offices.
• mdszy 7y ago
  >and we’ll soon expand to Texas and New Mexico in the near future pedantic but, as opposed to soon expanding in the far future? A little redundant.
  • chipperyman573 7y ago
    Yeah that's what it's opposed to, before we knew nothing about their plans to expand and now we know it's happening soon instead of "soon" (hopefully)
  • inscionent 7y ago
    Far expanding in the soon future
  • ageyfman 7y ago
    I think they mean Texas soon, and New Mexico in the near future. Maybe better to have written: and we'll soon expand to Texas, and New Mexico in the near future
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
• chrisco255 7y ago
  Are these semis truly driverless or does the testing that Waymo is conducting still require staff to monitor the drive? I want to parse through the hype here. Fully automated, point-to-point, driverless semis seem far off, as Hotz of Comma.ai was pointing out. Am I wrong on this assumption?
  • tim333 7y ago
    Pretty sure they'll still be using people to monitor things for now.
  • wolrah 7y ago
    > Are these semis truly driverless or does the testing that Waymo is conducting still require staff to monitor the drive? I would assume they're planning to follow a similar trajectory to their passenger vehicles. There are almost certainly human monitors on the trucks that are running right now, but the long term goal is to be driverless. > Fully automated, point-to-point, driverless semis seem far off, as Hotz of Comma.ai was pointing out. Am I wrong on this assumption? I think fully automated arbitrary point-to-point anything is a long way off at best and potentially impossible. Being able to handle any situation, including those that often give human drivers trouble, seems like it very likely could be a "hard AI" problem to me I think that shrinking the problem space to a fixed route makes things a lot simpler, especially for deliveries that aren't extremely time critical where the vehicle could safely pull off if things got questionable. Think about something like a load of cars being shipped from Detroit to Denver. Even if the autonomous trucks are limited to interstate-class highways, it could work like Turnpike Triples do here in Ohio where the autonomous truck could handle the interstate part and then drop the trailer(s) in a transfer lot located right at the exit. Human drivers could then pick them up from there for the local portion of the haul. That seems like it'd be a win-win, the companies get their loads able to drive any distance with no time limits while the drivers get a nice local loop where they're home every night.
• elicash 7y ago
  Edit: wrong story!
  • asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
    You're commenting on the wrong story. You meant to click on the Uber story but this one is about waymo.
• justicezyx 7y ago
  Everyone (Pony.ai started trucking as well) is converging to trucking as the canonical use cases. Let's see how this affect the existing self-driving firms.
  • umeshunni 7y ago
    In hindsight, trucking seems on the more obvious usecase for autonomous vehicles rather than daily commutes or ridesharing. 1. Most time spent and miles driven are on freeways rather than city streets. Last mile can still be done via human drivers meeting at an off-freeway ramp hub. 2. The cost and availability of labor is a significant damper on trucking. Remember during the oil boom in Alberta, Canada, how truckers were making six-figures and higher due to the high demand. 3. Humans get tired, can't drive for more than 8 hours due to legal restrictions and safety concerns. These are problem that machines can solve. 4. (Mostly) don't have to deal with pedestrians, bicycles, bad weather and other complexities. If there's a snowstorm, trucks can just do what they do now, wait it out at a truck stop.
    • ska 7y ago
      > In hindsight In foresight too. This has been part of the conversation since the very beginning; pointing out that the most likely initial targets for "real" commercial use at scale was long haul trucking, with people for either end. Usually predicated by heavy machinery in places like mines, where variants are already done.
    • Eridrus 7y ago
      There's still no federal autonomous vehicle legislation. The ramp hub is also infrastructure that needs to be built.
• trenning 7y ago
  Does Phoenix have laws that make them more attractive for testing or just location preference?
  • idiot900 7y ago
    Not much precipitation in Phoenix, and the roads tend to be dry.
  • desine 7y ago
    Uber was testing there because the local city government was easy to work with initially. After their fatal incident, the city became more restrictive, but Google/Waymo had already also moved in and started testing there, and because they didn't have any issues, I presume the city continued to work with them.
  • whalesalad 7y ago
    The opposite -- Phoenix has less laws that make them more attractive for virtually everything.
  • mikeyouse 7y ago
    Arizona basically threw their citizens to the wolves with a 2015 self-driving car law that allowed anything and everything to go (you wouldn't even have to register your cars as self-driving for a period). This attracted tons of firms to test their cars in a lax regulatory environment but since the famous Uber death and a number of self-driving accidents, they have tightened the rules somewhat. I suspect they're still looser than average and there's some inertia from everyone setting up shop there originally. From the original press release: > "Part of what makes Arizona an ideal place for Uber and other companies to test autonomous vehicle technology is that there are no special permits or licensing required," the ADOT release said. "In Arizona, autonomous vehicles have the same registration requirements as any other vehicle, and nothing in state law prevents testing autonomous vehicles." Article with latest updates: https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/maricopa-county-sheriff-election-arpaio-penzone-sheridan-2020-11446082 https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/maricopa-county-sheriff...
    • 7y ago
• VectorLock 7y ago
  Does a self-driving truck need a sleeper cab? Is the sleeper compartment filled with equipment?
  • bowmessage 7y ago
    Most likely there are drivers still on board to monitor and drive first and last mile.
    • VectorLock 7y ago
      They just chill in the sleeper cab the whole way and then "pilot" the last mile?
      • milofeynman 7y ago
        I don't think any laws allow for fully autonomous. I believe they require someone to be there to take over at all times.
      • Loughla 7y ago
        I'm getting flashes of youth, living as new nomads inside the self-driving truck they are leasing from a company. I think the future I see is both dumb and terrifying.
        • omegaworks 7y ago
          What is old is new again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freighthopping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freighthopping
      • tialaramex 7y ago
        Professional driving comes with hours limitations. In most industrialised countries you can't work more than so-and-so many hours driving without so-and-so many hours of rest (I don't know what the US rules are but I know they have them). But as just a passenger, aboard the truck but not driving it, you aren't using up those precious hours. I can see this making sense where the driver also has some skilled role at both ends, e.g. supervising loading and unloading of a particular type of cargo. Otherwise it may be just as sensible to build giant truck parking lots at key locations on big highways and have a human board trucks when they get to the closest lot to the final destination. In that model all truck drivers would go home every day, which means it's a less well paid job but also one that's more compatible with having a life outside work - long distance trucking would become something trucks do but drivers don't.
• markstos 7y ago
  As a bike/ped advocate, I believe self-driving cars will ultimately be safer than humans. Yesterday I was nearly hit crossing street twice: once by an inattentive driver and once by an intentionally reckless speeder. Oh the other hand, my brother has done a fair amount of truck driving and I'm aware it's a common job in the US. Maybe now that Bloomberg has dropped out he get together with Yang and use his billions to start providing a basic income to displaced truck drivers?
  • dangus 7y ago
    The idea that Bloomberg and Yang share any sort of common philosophy is laughable.
    • quaquaqua1 7y ago
      That's awkward, why did Yang tweet and go on TV saying how awesome Bloomberg's operation was?
      • fma 7y ago
        operation != philosophy...
      • zarmin 7y ago
        He works for CNN?
        • fma 7y ago
          He has a contract to provide political commentary. It's actually pretty good... Example for Super Tuesday commentary. These are snppets of only conversations Yang participated in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oclz7S8aXoo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oclz7S8aXoo
      • evanlivingston 7y ago
        DNC propaganda efforts for unity?
      • 7y ago
• briefcomment 7y ago
  Would be awesome if they could make these electric.
• bangelo 7y ago
  this landing page was written by a 6th grader
• ckmiller 7y ago
  I competed in the DARPA Urban Challenge, back in 2007. While we were watching the finalists trying to sort out the world's first fully-automated traffic jam, the conversation turned to how easy it is to manipulate these vehicles. Imagine a remote stretch of highway frequented by automated 18-wheelers. All that's required to bring the truck to a screeching halt is a bedsheet and some decent timing, at which point the vehicle has no way to prevent a robbery. The truck could put in a remote distress call, but it will still be some time before a human can get there. It's a new era for railroad heists! We're no closer to solving this problem than in 2007; everybody is still trying to manage the long tail of merely safe driving. Handling humans in adversarial situations like the above is still completely off the map.
  • gretch 7y ago
    You can already do this to humans pretty much just as easily, I just need some orange cones Then what? You have 20 palettes of dog chew toys or asian pears....? Some of the goods have serial/tracking numbers. The reason people don't rob 18 wheelers or trains is because it's not a good criminal enterprise
    • BigBubbleButt 7y ago
      I have not thought much about robbing trucks before, but I disagree this is the same as a manned truck. I think it's much more like the difference between robbing a house that is empty and a house while the owners are home. Most burglaries happen when nobody is home. Why would trucks be any different? Besides that, it is (likely) easier to trick an unmanned truck into stopping as OP mentioned. A person would easily recognize what's happening and it would be easier for him to just drive around the obstacle. It's not as easy to create an AI that can "think" around things like that. Besides that, I hear truck drivers are often armed. I would guess that punishment for property crimes is less severe than armed robbery against a person, but I don't actually know. In the grand scheme of things though, I think this is a negligible concern compared to all of the other problems self-driving trucks have to solve first.
      • 7y ago
• stefan_ 7y ago
  Just from looking at it there seem to be obvious sensor dead zones, particularly behind it.
  • MuffinFlavored 7y ago
    You kind of need a $15/hr armed security guard along for the ride too so that the "cartel" or equivalent doesn't steal your load.
  • olex 7y ago
    Less than with a human driver, who can't see anything immediately in front and partially to the sides of the cab as well.
• Uhhrrr 7y ago
  Are they selling this? If not, why waste effort making a page for it?
  • cryptoz 7y ago
    You see HN comments all the time telling startups to put up a page before their product is ready. It's super common advice. Here are a few offhand reasons I can suggest it's not a waste even if the product is not for sale. Marketing. Lead times for delivery contracts are probably long. Expanding your marketing, making your target audience aware of the product ahead of time, is useful. It makes future sales cycles easier, as your potential customers may already know about your new product. Hype. Self-driving cars and trucks already have lots of hype, but not usually for the big 18wheeler delivery style. Waymo may need to increase not just awareness but also excitement. Testing for product-market fit. While a purchaser won't make a decision based on this page alone, Waymo can make some decisions and learn some things based on people's reactions to this. I could keep going, there are thousands of reasons that making a page for a product or service not yet for sale can be a good idea and not a waste.
• throwaway55554 7y ago
  I wonder how well it navigates weight stations. What happens if it fails compliance? How will they tell the truck to park?
• trhway 7y ago
  anybody knows - is that new slim sensor package a major upgrade to the set/quality of sensors or just a re-packaging? They've only recently appeared in MV, so i haven't been able to get a good look yet :) It is interesting that it appeared on the wave of doubling of the Waymo staff in 1 year plus major outside investment and all those new announcements. It makes one wonder whether they've got major improvements or are only gearing toward it and/or just preparing to expand the operations for one final push across the finish line.
• Pfhreak 7y ago
  If Waymo is successful, there are potentially massive impacts to the population of the US. Trucking is a major industry. The Luddites weren't mad about the advancement of technology, they didn't destroy looms out of religious or anti-technological ideals. Many of them were skilled loom operators. They were squeezed out of their jobs by the race to the bottom, and they were angry that there wasn't any consideration for the paradigm shift they were experiencing. If Waymo turns trucking into an automated business (or even just reduces the number of humans needed to haul cargo), we could be in for a similar situation. I wonder what Waymo is doing to help support the existing drivers, regulating how we should care for the many millions of humans this could impact, etc. I believe automated vehicles will someday be safer and more desirable, but we need to ensure that they aren't also the villains in the disenfranchisement of millions of people.
  • Qworg 7y ago
    Trucking will go the same way - it is far more efficient (and allows you to grow faster), therefore market pressure will drive every trucking company to autonomous.
    • Pfhreak 7y ago
      Yes. This is exactly my concern. Long term, I expect we're all better off, but we cannot just look at the present and the long term, we need to understand how disruptive it will be in the interim and make sure we're supporting the humans that are currently doing the work.
  • uasm 7y ago
    > "If Waymo turns trucking into an automated business (or even just reduces the number of humans needed to haul cargo), we could be in for a similar situation." Sure. Tuning in to last week's news - "Mass layoffs reported after Starsky Robotics fails to find buyer, investors" [0]. Starsky had a demonstrable path to "reduce the number of humans needed to haul cargo". What gives? [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22420147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22420147
  • WhompingWindows 7y ago
• lolc 7y ago
  > No matter what you’re transporting or where it’s headed, Waymo Via will have you covered. Lumber haulage, on forest tracks, in winter? Snark aside, I'll be really impressed when they manage to get any service going. But that page doesn't offer anything to convince me.
  • ttul 7y ago
    Lumber hauling off road may actually be one of the easier applications because the road is usually dedicated to trucking. Logging trucks already assume they can blast along at full speed because if you use a logging road, you’re supposed to radio your position via CB to ensure the trucks know where you are and don’t hit you.
    • ska 7y ago
      IIRC there are already some analogous uses in mining - there the track following is a bit easier, but has similar dedicated use simplification.
    • thedance 7y ago
      Sigh. Forest roads are absolutely not dedicated to logging, they are frequently used by hikers, backpackers, cyclists, and equestrians, and just people driving to a picnic spot. At least in America working forests are also public lands.
      • ttul 7y ago
        This is true, but nonetheless you’re supposed to carry a CB. On Canadian logging roads, this is not something they take lightly - at least on the signage!
  • ehsankia 7y ago
    I believe it can drive during winter, just not in extreme condition (snowstorm). Of course, it can simply wait until the storm passes and continue. And honestly, many of the cases where Waymo can't safely drive, realistically most humans shouldn't be driving either but we still do because we're stubborn like that. OTOH, if there's a 24h stretch of good condition, it can drive the whole time.
• Rebelgecko 7y ago
  Are these pictures just renderings or actual things that exist?
  • goldenchrome 7y ago
    They're real. I've seen them around the Bay Area.
    • foota 7y ago
      I'm surprised that I hadn't seen leaks about this, if they were visible in public.
      • thedance 7y ago
        I've been wondering for years why nobody mentions this. I saw them on the road in Sunnyvale in 2018. Maybe people assume they are just regular trucks used to transport Waymo cars or something.
        • paxys 7y ago
          Maybe it was actually a self driving truck transporting a self driving car.
          • thedance 7y ago
            Well I did find this 2017 article so I guess they have been covered a bit. https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/27/these-are-the-autonomous-trucks-that-googles-waymo-is-testing/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/27/these-are-the-autonomous-t...
• mkchoi212 7y ago
  From the placement of the LIDARs, I wonder how they solved the problem of being able to look in the truck's blind spot. Or do they just attach a camera on the back of the container every time they switch containers??
• coral-snake 7y ago
  Copy nit: > We’re currently testing our fleet of trucks in California and Arizona, and we’ll soon expand to Texas and New Mexico in the near future. "soon <thing> in the near future" is a weird structure. It's repeating itself, which either comes across as poorly constructed or _really_ emphasizing. I doubt it is the latter....but if it were, I'd expect waymo to announce Texas/NM support within a few weeks. (Which begs the question of "why publish this blog now, instead of in 1-3 weeks when Texas/NM support launches?")
• predictmktegirl 7y ago
  With how much money everyone is spending, wouldn't it just be cheaper to build a private cross-country interstate where only AI drivers are allowed. Let humans drive the trucks to this interstate then let the AI take over. It seems like almost all the edge cases would be solved if you just got rid of other human drivers and let the vehicles network with one another.
  • ibrarmalik 7y ago
    Check out the InfraMix project. They want a dedicated lane for autonomous vehicles in highways. I believe they are already testing this near Girona.
  • joliv 7y ago
    Sounds like rail?
    • predictmktegirl 7y ago
      You're not wrong but the unit economics are quite different.
      • raghavtoshniwal 7y ago
        Except with 1 major twist. The longest most and used stretches could be automated while the "last mile" could use a human. Best of both worlds.
  • scythe 7y ago
    The problem is that the whole point of trucks is that they can go almost anywhere. Replace that with dedicated roads and you might have cheaper unit economics or whatever but you still have a rail-like distribution network.
    • bobbylarrybobby 7y ago
      It’s like rail, except the autonomous trucks can leave their designated road, wait for a human to take the wheel, and then head straight into town
• ccktlmazeltov 7y ago
  Andrew Yang was right.