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I'm not an expert in either this or cryptocurrency, but it always seemed like these two would be a good marriage of technologies rather than having crypto minin

by slg 7y ago

I'm not an expert in either this or cryptocurrency, but it always seemed like these two would be a good marriage of technologies rather than having crypto mining rigs waste resources on unproductive proof of work algorithms. Does anyone know why that wasn't feasible or didn't catch on?

sjburt 7y ago
Proof of work relies on computations that are hard to do but easy to check that someone has done. The entire network has to check someone's proposed result. There are very few computations that have sufficient asymmetry to the degree needed to make bitcoin work, and the types of things that SETI@home needs don't fit that bill.
- sprash 7y ago
  The projects Primecoin and Riecoin are digital currencies that try to provide proof of work algorithms with (somewhat) scientific value.
  - Forbo 7y ago
    There's GridCoin, as well, which utilizes BOINC for work units.
    - tech_man7 7y ago
      Golem (www.golem.network) is building a general-purpose distributed computation platform where people who need compute power pay using cryptocurrency. And developers can build software to run on it (and get paid when it's used).
      - Forbo 7y ago
        I vouched for your comment, as it's factually correct near as I can tell. I've been interested in the project, especially since Joanna Rutkowska joined them.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  Isn't Folding@Home trying to run an asymmetrical computation, though? The broad strokes as I understand them are that you have a sequence of amines, you arrange them into a three-dimensional protein (the hard part) by whatever method, and then you evaluate the energy bound within your structure (the easier part?). Lower energy is better. The obvious problem is that there's no judgment of "correct" or "incorrect". Analogizing to a bitcoin proof-of-work, it would be as if a hash beginning with more zeroes always outranked a hash beginning with fewer zeroes, but there was no way to know whether your hash started with "enough" zeroes or not.
  - tinco 7y ago
    You could incorporate that in a quorum blockchain like Stellar (or Ripple I guess), but the whole point of those is that they remove the need for PoW so that's a bit useless. Maybe it's a cool way to build trust in such a network though..
  - jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
    RE: folding@home, How much money will the medical cartel make off of the fruits of all that free labor? Do users even know what they're folding? How do users know that they're not building bioweapons?
    - ska 7y ago
      For the most part this is fundamental research of the type that is typically funded from public grants, these are not pharma companies... As for what they are contributing too, it's all pretty well documented.
    - dekhn 7y ago
      protein folding simulations don't produce a lot of money for pharma (I say that as somebody with a F@H publication to my name specifically doing research on GPCRs, which are a huge pharma target). users can see what the workunits are doing, and choose subprojects, presumably avoiding bioweapons if that's important to them.
ahmedbodi 7y ago
It's already been done in 2 projects. One called Curecoin and another called FoldingCoin, kinda niche i guess. didnt really catch on
- Forbo 7y ago
  There's GridCoin, as well, which utilizes BOINC for work units.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
rolltiide 7y ago
There were plenty, basically none of these savants understood economics so they didn't build a demand model, they only built a supply model. So people got paid in coin and just flooded the market until it was worth nothing. Crypto mining rigs are proving far more productive than Seti or Folding@Home ever did. Economic pressures push the real energy heavy miners into places with renewable energy and also repurposing waste byproducts into electricity, so this is actually one of the most useful and cleanest sector on the planet, ironically the opposite of what people are saying. Protip: Headlines only tell you "how much" energy is being used and not the source, and this is very intentional.
tech_man7 7y ago
Some people are working on this exact thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZb_w5JXvJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZb_w5JXvJ8

by slg 7y ago

sjburt 7y ago

Proof of work relies on computations that are hard to do but easy to check that someone has done. The entire network has to check someone's proposed result. There are very few computations that have sufficient asymmetry to the degree needed to make bitcoin work, and the types of things that SETI@home needs don't fit that bill.

sprash 7y ago
The projects Primecoin and Riecoin are digital currencies that try to provide proof of work algorithms with (somewhat) scientific value.
- Forbo 7y ago
  There's GridCoin, as well, which utilizes BOINC for work units.
  - tech_man7 7y ago
    Golem (www.golem.network) is building a general-purpose distributed computation platform where people who need compute power pay using cryptocurrency. And developers can build software to run on it (and get paid when it's used).
    - Forbo 7y ago
      I vouched for your comment, as it's factually correct near as I can tell. I've been interested in the project, especially since Joanna Rutkowska joined them.
thaumasiotes 7y ago
Isn't Folding@Home trying to run an asymmetrical computation, though? The broad strokes as I understand them are that you have a sequence of amines, you arrange them into a three-dimensional protein (the hard part) by whatever method, and then you evaluate the energy bound within your structure (the easier part?). Lower energy is better. The obvious problem is that there's no judgment of "correct" or "incorrect". Analogizing to a bitcoin proof-of-work, it would be as if a hash beginning with more zeroes always outranked a hash beginning with fewer zeroes, but there was no way to know whether your hash started with "enough" zeroes or not.
- tinco 7y ago
  You could incorporate that in a quorum blockchain like Stellar (or Ripple I guess), but the whole point of those is that they remove the need for PoW so that's a bit useless. Maybe it's a cool way to build trust in such a network though..
- jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
  RE: folding@home, How much money will the medical cartel make off of the fruits of all that free labor? Do users even know what they're folding? How do users know that they're not building bioweapons?
  - ska 7y ago
    For the most part this is fundamental research of the type that is typically funded from public grants, these are not pharma companies... As for what they are contributing too, it's all pretty well documented.
  - dekhn 7y ago
    protein folding simulations don't produce a lot of money for pharma (I say that as somebody with a F@H publication to my name specifically doing research on GPCRs, which are a huge pharma target). users can see what the workunits are doing, and choose subprojects, presumably avoiding bioweapons if that's important to them.

ahmedbodi 7y ago

It's already been done in 2 projects. One called Curecoin and another called FoldingCoin, kinda niche i guess. didnt really catch on

Forbo 7y ago
There's GridCoin, as well, which utilizes BOINC for work units.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

rolltiide 7y ago

There were plenty, basically none of these savants understood economics so they didn't build a demand model, they only built a supply model. So people got paid in coin and just flooded the market until it was worth nothing. Crypto mining rigs are proving far more productive than Seti or Folding@Home ever did. Economic pressures push the real energy heavy miners into places with renewable energy and also repurposing waste byproducts into electricity, so this is actually one of the most useful and cleanest sector on the planet, ironically the opposite of what people are saying. Protip: Headlines only tell you "how much" energy is being used and not the source, and this is very intentional.

tech_man7 7y ago

Some people are working on this exact thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZb_w5JXvJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZb_w5JXvJ8