5 ms·

But microservices are an example of simpler systems. Each microservice does far less than the whole monolith does. You can read all the code in ~15 minutes. I'

But microservices are an example of simpler systems. Each microservice does far less than the whole monolith does. You can read all the code in ~15 minutes. I've worked at companies that have monoliths that are 50x more difficult to work on because of the size. Some of them millions of lines of code. Nobody really knows how they work anymore.

krab 7y ago
The complexity is still somewhere. You can structure your monolith in a way that you can read each module's code in ~15 minutes. Each module also can be developed and tested in isolation. However, if the organization is not capable of structuring the monolith, why should it be successful with microservices? Such organization may lead to sharing data stores and custom libraries between microservices and that's when the real fun begins. Maybe even trying to deploy all of the services atomically to not worry about API compatibility.
darkerside 7y ago
Underrated point, although incomplete from my perspective. 2 simple systems > 1 complex system. But 1 semi-complex system > 10 simple systems. Especially when you consider the points of integration between those systems increases geometrically with the number of systems.
dspillett 7y ago
Microservices are simple components of what could be a simple or a complex system. If things are overly broken down then unnecessary complexity could easily be added.
hopia 7y ago
Microservices make you architect your whole service differently. The communication is essentially asynchronous message passing which may or may not make things more difficult.
LargeWu 7y ago
Microservices, often, is just another word for "distributed monolith". Sure you can read the code of a single service quickly, but often in practice it's not possible to just make changes to one service. There are usually both explicit and implicit dependencies that span many service layers. What you gain in readability I think you often lose more in maintenance overhead.
- nickbauman 7y ago
  I worked on a microservices practice (with over 400 microservices by the time I left) where it definitely was not a "distributed monolith". I could change all kinds of individual services that did not require changes to other services.
  - SPBS 7y ago
    I think monoliths can be written the same way such that you can change one module without changing the others. Microservices enforce that best practice.
    - goostavos 7y ago
      "Enforce" gets thrown around a lot, but that's approaching silver bullet expectation levels, in my opinion. A core skill problems on a team that would prevent building a maintainable monolith do not go away because you've added more things for them to manage.
sgift 7y ago
> But microservices are an example of simpler systems. Each microservice does far less than the whole monolith does. You can read all the code in ~15 minutes. Microservice usually means distributed system. A distributed system is more complex than a non-distributed system since it has to do everything the non-distributed system has to do and, additionally, handle all the distributed problems. Microservices just hide the complexity in places where people don't see them if they take a cursory look over the code, e.g. what is a function call in a monolith can be a call to a completely different machine in a microservice architecture. Often they look the same on the outside, but behave very differently. The hierarchy of simplicity is: Monolith > multithreaded[1] monolith > distributed system. If you can get away with a simpler one it will save you from many headaches. > I've worked at companies that have monoliths that are 50x more difficult to work on because of the size. Some of them millions of lines of code. Nobody really knows how they work anymore. That is a bad architecture, not something inherent to a "monolith". There's probably also a wording problem here. A monolith can be build out of many components. Libraries were a thing long before microservices reared their ugly heads. What you describe sounds more like a spaghetti architecture where all millions of lines are in one big repository and every part can call every other part. Unfortunately, microservices are not immune from this problem. [1] or whatever you want to call "uses more than one core/cpu"
- jayd16 7y ago
  >Microservice usually means distributed system. A distributed system is more complex than a non-distributed system since it has to do everything the non-distributed system has to do and, additionally, handle all the distributed problems. Microservices just hide the complexity in places where people don't see them if they take a cursory look over the code, e.g. what is a function call in a monolith can be a call to a completely different machine in a microservice architecture. Often they look the same on the outside, but behave very differently. This is a false assumption. Some problems are distributed. Sometimes you'll have an external data store or you'll need to deal with distribution across instances of the monolith. You really run into pain when you build a distributed system in your single monolithic code base and your monolithic abstractions start falling apart. In my experience you end up solving these problems eventually, monolith or not. You might as well embrace the idea that you're deploying multiple services and some form of cross service communication. You don't need to go crazy with it though.

krab 7y ago

The complexity is still somewhere. You can structure your monolith in a way that you can read each module's code in ~15 minutes. Each module also can be developed and tested in isolation. However, if the organization is not capable of structuring the monolith, why should it be successful with microservices? Such organization may lead to sharing data stores and custom libraries between microservices and that's when the real fun begins. Maybe even trying to deploy all of the services atomically to not worry about API compatibility.

darkerside 7y ago

Underrated point, although incomplete from my perspective. 2 simple systems > 1 complex system. But 1 semi-complex system > 10 simple systems. Especially when you consider the points of integration between those systems increases geometrically with the number of systems.

dspillett 7y ago

Microservices are simple components of what could be a simple or a complex system. If things are overly broken down then unnecessary complexity could easily be added.

hopia 7y ago

Microservices make you architect your whole service differently. The communication is essentially asynchronous message passing which may or may not make things more difficult.

LargeWu 7y ago

Microservices, often, is just another word for "distributed monolith". Sure you can read the code of a single service quickly, but often in practice it's not possible to just make changes to one service. There are usually both explicit and implicit dependencies that span many service layers. What you gain in readability I think you often lose more in maintenance overhead.

nickbauman 7y ago
I worked on a microservices practice (with over 400 microservices by the time I left) where it definitely was not a "distributed monolith". I could change all kinds of individual services that did not require changes to other services.
- SPBS 7y ago
  I think monoliths can be written the same way such that you can change one module without changing the others. Microservices enforce that best practice.
  - goostavos 7y ago
    "Enforce" gets thrown around a lot, but that's approaching silver bullet expectation levels, in my opinion. A core skill problems on a team that would prevent building a maintainable monolith do not go away because you've added more things for them to manage.

sgift 7y ago

> But microservices are an example of simpler systems. Each microservice does far less than the whole monolith does. You can read all the code in ~15 minutes. Microservice usually means distributed system. A distributed system is more complex than a non-distributed system since it has to do everything the non-distributed system has to do and, additionally, handle all the distributed problems. Microservices just hide the complexity in places where people don't see them if they take a cursory look over the code, e.g. what is a function call in a monolith can be a call to a completely different machine in a microservice architecture. Often they look the same on the outside, but behave very differently. The hierarchy of simplicity is: Monolith > multithreaded[1] monolith > distributed system. If you can get away with a simpler one it will save you from many headaches. > I've worked at companies that have monoliths that are 50x more difficult to work on because of the size. Some of them millions of lines of code. Nobody really knows how they work anymore. That is a bad architecture, not something inherent to a "monolith". There's probably also a wording problem here. A monolith can be build out of many components. Libraries were a thing long before microservices reared their ugly heads. What you describe sounds more like a spaghetti architecture where all millions of lines are in one big repository and every part can call every other part. Unfortunately, microservices are not immune from this problem. [1] or whatever you want to call "uses more than one core/cpu"

jayd16 7y ago
>Microservice usually means distributed system. A distributed system is more complex than a non-distributed system since it has to do everything the non-distributed system has to do and, additionally, handle all the distributed problems. Microservices just hide the complexity in places where people don't see them if they take a cursory look over the code, e.g. what is a function call in a monolith can be a call to a completely different machine in a microservice architecture. Often they look the same on the outside, but behave very differently. This is a false assumption. Some problems are distributed. Sometimes you'll have an external data store or you'll need to deal with distribution across instances of the monolith. You really run into pain when you build a distributed system in your single monolithic code base and your monolithic abstractions start falling apart. In my experience you end up solving these problems eventually, monolith or not. You might as well embrace the idea that you're deploying multiple services and some form of cross service communication. You don't need to go crazy with it though.