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As a layperson it feels to me like research in the "megadose on vitamins to prevent illness" area is kind of tainted by the legacy of Linus Pauling, who was no

As a layperson it feels to me like research in the "megadose on vitamins to prevent illness" area is kind of tainted by the legacy of Linus Pauling, who was no doubt a genius in his fields and whose published literature advocated the position that vitamin C megadose would reduce cancer deaths by 75% ( https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitamin-myth-why-we-think-we-need-supplements/277947/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitam... ). I guess we know how to avoid the trouble -- make hypotheses and test them. The trouble there is that the placebo effect is not a bad thing -- if you're doing things which you think will improve your wellness and it works, who cares whether there's a chemical mechanism? It works!

ovi256 7y ago
>As a layperson it feels to me like research in the "megadose on vitamins to prevent illness" area is kind of tainted by the legacy of Linus Pauling You're completely right, biochemists and medical chemists know fully well it's tainted by Pauling's late work and will tell you so. If even a small positive effect was missed because of that taint, that's a terrible legacy that led to many avoidable deaths (all the people that suffered or died until the positive effect is finally recognized). We should be better at salvaging such effects from their imperfect creators.
ucha 7y ago
You can't really megadose on Vitamin D because like most liposoluble vitamins, they are hepatotoxic at large doses.
- teach 7y ago
  Yeah, but there's a huge gap between current RDA and toxicity. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-d-toxicity/faq-20058108 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h... 4000 IU per day would probably help a lot of people and is still an order of magnitude under the intake that's known to be toxic (60,000 IU/day for several months).
hannob 7y ago
> The trouble there is that the placebo effect is not a bad thing -- if you're doing things which you think will improve your wellness and it works, who cares whether there's a chemical mechanism? It works! That's an exceptionally oversimplified view on the placebo effect. There's a very obvious issue: If you take something that helps you due to placebo it may still also harm you due to its side effects. Some vitamins have been shown to increase overall mortality. But there's another issue, and that is that often what people observe isn't the placebo effect, but something called "regression to the mean". Which is basically the effect that you may take something and you get better, though you would've gotten better anyway, because that's the natural progression of the disease you have. This is very likely a bigger reason for all the "I took it myself and got better, so I know it works!"-stories out there than the placebo effect. And the "who cares why it works?" argument doesn't count for regression to the mean.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  From the parent comment: > who cares whether there's a chemical mechanism? It works! There probably even is a chemical mechanism that improves your health. Mental conditions like fear increase your heartbeat, respiration and muscle tonus, being relaxed does the opposite. Stress is a factor we know is contraproductive for the immune system and general health. The effects have severe limitations of course and I don't think you can take anything to "trigger" the placebo effect. You need the healthy self deception part for it to work.

ovi256 7y ago

>As a layperson it feels to me like research in the "megadose on vitamins to prevent illness" area is kind of tainted by the legacy of Linus Pauling You're completely right, biochemists and medical chemists know fully well it's tainted by Pauling's late work and will tell you so. If even a small positive effect was missed because of that taint, that's a terrible legacy that led to many avoidable deaths (all the people that suffered or died until the positive effect is finally recognized). We should be better at salvaging such effects from their imperfect creators.

ucha 7y ago

You can't really megadose on Vitamin D because like most liposoluble vitamins, they are hepatotoxic at large doses.

teach 7y ago
Yeah, but there's a huge gap between current RDA and toxicity. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-d-toxicity/faq-20058108 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h... 4000 IU per day would probably help a lot of people and is still an order of magnitude under the intake that's known to be toxic (60,000 IU/day for several months).

hannob 7y ago

> The trouble there is that the placebo effect is not a bad thing -- if you're doing things which you think will improve your wellness and it works, who cares whether there's a chemical mechanism? It works! That's an exceptionally oversimplified view on the placebo effect. There's a very obvious issue: If you take something that helps you due to placebo it may still also harm you due to its side effects. Some vitamins have been shown to increase overall mortality. But there's another issue, and that is that often what people observe isn't the placebo effect, but something called "regression to the mean". Which is basically the effect that you may take something and you get better, though you would've gotten better anyway, because that's the natural progression of the disease you have. This is very likely a bigger reason for all the "I took it myself and got better, so I know it works!"-stories out there than the placebo effect. And the "who cares why it works?" argument doesn't count for regression to the mean.

raxxorrax 7y ago
From the parent comment: > who cares whether there's a chemical mechanism? It works! There probably even is a chemical mechanism that improves your health. Mental conditions like fear increase your heartbeat, respiration and muscle tonus, being relaxed does the opposite. Stress is a factor we know is contraproductive for the immune system and general health. The effects have severe limitations of course and I don't think you can take anything to "trigger" the placebo effect. You need the healthy self deception part for it to work.