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Homeowner forecloses on Wells Fargo office, becomes folk hero
- gregory80 16y agoRESPA ftw? --snip-- He learned about RESPA which allows a Qualified Written Request (QWR), a letter that a loan holder can send to their mortgage servicer who is legally obligated to acknowledge within 20 days and take action within 60 --snip--
- greenyoda 16y agoWhy post this meaningless comment when you could have just looked it up on Wikipedia yourself? Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RESPA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RESPA
- jey 16y agoHe said "ftw", not "wtf". http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ftw http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ftw
- CWuestefeld 16y agoyes, but even reading it correctly, it was an empty comment that added nothing to the conversation. It doesn't deserve those up-votes.
- lukeschlather 16y agoExpressing approval for the legislation that enabled this situation clearly adds something to the conversation.
- chops 16y agoA highlight is not an empty comment, but an effort to improve usability by highlighting key elements.
- zdw 16y agoAnyone else think that nearly the entire financial industry is ready to be replaced with a lot of very short shell scripts? It seems to me that their value add is negligible compared to how they're rewarded.
- kulkarnic 16y agoIt certainly looks like the industry is run with a bunch of shell scripts. Buddy scripts, of course. [Edit: Or maybe they're "features", not bugs.]
- michaelty 16y agohttp://www.pylaw.org/RegAB.html http://www.pylaw.org/RegAB.html "The Securities and Exchange Commission is proposing two new disclosure requirements for offerings of asset backed securities. See the RevisedRegAB site for details on the proposal."
- JonnieCache 16y agoIt basically is already, except they're all written in VBA/Excel. This goes some way towards explaining the mess we're in IMO.
- jrockway 16y agoWhile over-reliance on Excel spreadsheets does hurt day-to-day operations, it didn't cause the meltdown of the economy. That was caused by either not understanding that certain factors existed, or ignoring them despite what their analytics said. Software can only produce data according to the models that exist, rewriting them in C isn't going to cause someone to have some big insight about how the economy works.
- henryprecheur 16y agoYou should show more respect to what other people do. You're not the only one guilty of this, everybody tend to overestimate their contribution to the world. How many times did you hear/read about a business guy / manager saying that programmers are a disposable commodity? Saying that "the entire financial industry is ready to be replaced with a lot of very short shell scripts", you are acting exactly the same way. Did you forgot about the dot-com bubble when the tech industry was the one guilty of being over-rewarded for what was often was no value (pet.com)?
- kolektiv 16y agoI can't resist it. I know pedantry is to be discouraged here, and I apologise in advance. But... "a century old 6 bedroom 3 bath Tudor home" grates against the part of my mammalian hind-brain responsible for breathing, basic motor control and throttling estate agents. Downvotes will be sadly accepted.
- kulkarnic 16y agoWhat are you talking about? And how does it matter to the story? The guy found a way to stick it to the man, with no prior training in law. I think a demonstration that you can do today what was unthinkable a little more than a decade ago is a point well worth reading whatever you don't like about the home description.
- colanderman 16y agoLet's think of uses for such a home... * rental property * work space (perhaps he has a recording studio?) * renovation for future sale * housing for family The article doesn't say he lives alone with his butler.
- nhangen 16y agoWould be a nice listing for AirBnB.
- zdw 16y agoWhen was the last time you were in a $180k house, built over 100 years ago? The 6 bedrooms are probably all tiny <300 square feet, with closets that can't hold more than 3-5 items of clothing. I'd be surprised if the entire house was more than 2500 square feet. This isn't a 6000 square foot McMansion like you're thinking it might be.
- trafficlight 16y agoExactly. In houses over a 100 years old (actually in houses built before widespread electricity), most of the bedrooms were only big enough to accommodate a bed, a nightstand and a chair. My house was built in 1905 in a mining community. It was 2 bedrooms originally. A queen bed wouldn't fit in either one. We ended up combining them into one decent sized bedroom. Before electricity, there was nothing else to do in a bedroom besides sleep. No sense in making it bigger than it had to be.
- tjmaxal 16y agoSo what can we do to help the situation?
- IgorPartola 16y agoDon't get a mortgage from Wells Fargo. Better yet, tell them that you did not and will not.
- nhangen 16y agoI'm actually more impressed that the courts, even locally, didn't try to stop him from pressing buttons and ruffling feathers. Bravo to the entire town.
- Pooter 16y agoDon't kid yourself. In Philly, it owes more to the apathy of the courts than any egalitarian motivations.
- hippich 16y agoWait.. I am new to all this US legal stuff. So because bank did not response to his letter, sheriff put bank building on sale? or I misunderstood article?
- georgieporgie 16y agoI found it rather confusing as well. As I understand it, this is how it went down: 1) He made a "Qualified Written Request" to Wells Fargo (W.F.). I don't know exactly what the request was for though. Presumably an explanation of mysterious charges from W.F. 2) W.F. failed to acknowledge within 20 days and/or act within 60. 3) He filed a suit in small claims court regarding this failure to respond and won by default, since W.F. failed to show up in court. 4) W.F. failed to pay the judgment (?), so he went to the Sheriff to have them place a levy (fine) on Wells Fargo via (presumably) their property. 5) W.F. fails to pay the levy (??), so the property is put up for sale by the Sheriff's department. (I put question marks in all the areas where the article isn't clear) Here's the first Google result for Sheriff's sale: http://www.hudclips.org/articles/what-is-a-sheriff-sale-how-does-it-work/ http://www.hudclips.org/articles/what-is-a-sheriff-sale-how-... It's basically a foreclosure, so the headline is only sort-of misleading.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- MichaelApproved 16y agoI believe they did pay the judgment but didn't rectify the original QWR request. I still don't understand how that allows him to foreclose on the property though.
- funthree 16y agoA levy is a legal procedure. It is the act of seizing property to pay for a debt. Wells fargo didnt pay their legally obligated debt to this man, so he used that (levy) legal process to go after their local office. It's very odd, that's why it's a popular story
- RK 16y agoI think the moral of the story is: don't get an adjustable rate mortgage.
- waterlesscloud 16y agoThis didn't have anything to do with adjustable rates. Read it again.
- RK 16y agoA few years ago, he opens his mail to find a notice that his premiums are doubling, requiring a $1,000,000 insurance policy in the event the home is destroyed and needed to be rebuilt. This sounds like a mortgage rate increase is in turn requiring a larger insurance policy. Honestly it's hard to parse that sentence in a way that makes sense to me.
- ianferrel 16y agoI believe it meant that his insurance premiums were doubling due to a (new?) requirement that his house have $1mil insurance. I admit the article is incredibly unclear, but I don't see how an increase in mortgage rate would result in increased insurance premiums.
- prakashk 16y agoI thought it was probably due to increase in premiums on the Homeowners' Insurance policy which is required by the lender, so that they would not incur the loss in the event that house (on which the lender has a lien on until it is fully paid for) is destroyed by a fire or some other damage. Many borrowers contribute to an escrow account (maintained by the lender on the borrower's behalf) which is used to pay the insurance premiums and also property taxes. When the insurance company decides to increase the premiums (which happened to me last year), the lender would notify the borrower to contribute more to their escrow account. I am not sure if that's what happened in this case, but it does make sense to me.
- megaframe 16y agook thats hilarious, well done sir
- mryall 16y agoWhat does "forecloses on [an] office" actually mean? The article didn't explain that to me. From what I read, it sounds like the guy just won a court claim in local court against WF, and got the Sheriff's office to concur that the company was somehow in the wrong. I thought foreclosure was repossession of a house when the borrower is in default?
- dangrossman 16y agoWells Fargo failed to pay the damages levied by the court. You can't just lose a court case and not pay, not if you have assets at least. The Sheriff is taking possession of their assets (the office) and selling them to pay the claim.
- krschultz 16y agoI don't know exactly how it works, but I had an uncle who had a large boat, and was short around $10,000 on a bill to the yard it was located in. The boat was worth around $80,000. He couldn't pay the last bit of the bill (well, $10k worth) and the yard foreclosed on his boat. It ended up being sold for around $40k. I'm not sure if the yard got its $10k and my uncle got $30k, or if the yard got $40k and he got 0. I do know that my (other) uncle owns a car repair business and has the towing contract for the town police department. Whenever they tow abandoned cars, he charges a daily rate. If no one steps forward to pay the bill, at some point he can get the title for the car and own it. You would think people would claim their cars, but in a lot of situations there is evidence in the car (drugs, guns, etc) that the police take and then he ends up with a car on his lot nobody wants to claim. Six months later, he forecloses on it and ends up owning a car. Sometimes it can be a really nice car too. So foreclosures/seizures/liens are not always banks evicting families that are late on their mortgage, I just don't understand all the details.
- edkennedy 16y agoThere's a bit more info, including more photos and a scan of the poster over at the consumerist: http://consumerist.com/2011/02/how-this-philly-homeowner-foreclosed-on-wells-fargo.html http://consumerist.com/2011/02/how-this-philly-homeowner-for...
- troymc 16y agoA great line from that article: "As a music event promoter, he says he's put up a lot of posters, but these were the most satisfying he's ever hung."
- Evgeny 16y agoI think I don't quite get how the mortgage system works in the USA. In Australia it is fairly easy to go to a competing bank or other financial institution if you're unhappy with you current lender, discuss the terms and maybe get a better deal, get a loan from the new lender and pay out the outstanding loan with the previous lender. You may have to pay some fee for paying out your mortgage too early, but it's usually not that huge. Is this not possible in the USA?
- jrwoodruff 16y agoUsually possible, but fairly expensive. Mortgages, at least here, are generally not terribly simple... Loan origination fees, inspections, in addition to possible early payment fees... usually several thousand dollars, depending on the size of the loan. Also, many homeowners over here (probably including the guy in this article) are underwater; that is, they owe more on their home than it's worth, making it pretty much impossible to refinance.
- caf 16y agoIs it really likely that he is underwater on a loan that he's been repaying for seven years? Have valuations dropped that far?
- waterlesscloud 16y agoThey certainly have in parts of California.
- brc 16y agoYes it is possible, and it is just as easy. It works in much the same way - there are differences between the two countries - but the option of refinancing your loan is pretty much the same. In both instances you'll be up for fees for breaking your old loan, and up for fees for originating your new loan. What's more likely is that due to changed circumstances this guy wouldn't qualify for his loan again. So while a bank can't force you to leave because your credit situation has deterioated, you are effectively locked in because another bank wouldn't want you. The same can happen in Australia (and will probably be happening in increasing amounts in the coming years). I have built software for American mortgage lenders and Australian mortgage lenders (and UK ones, for that matter). The three countries have very similar systems, although the USA has a much wider variety of product options, the laws around originating and terminating loans are pretty similar. This is not surprising, all three countries have laws evolved from the same system, and mortgages are a very old legal construct. A deteriation in his credit might be : loss of job, reduction in income, another loan default (say, car loan or credit card) or the value of his house being less than the mortgage (most likely I would guess). In effect he just wants the mysterious charges removed so he can manage his budget. As long as you're paying your mortgage the bank can't touch you. In reality Wells Fargo are probably trying to get him to leave of his own accord.
- winternett 16y agoIf your house is being foreclosed upon, look into filing a Lis Pends, foreclosurefish.com has brilliant information on the process, Filing that prevents most buyers from making bids on the house while you sort out your case. Always save all of the paperwork you get from your mortgage company, Hire a lawyer, don't file for Bankruptcy, Bankruptcy lawyers will tell you that's your only option because they want your business, but that will put you in financial jail for years! A lawyer can work wonders if they know what they're doing, and they can also get your legal fees back. Its rough to get laid off, but if you take hold of the situation, work on being marketable for a job, and educate yourself about foreclosure, you'll recover.
- joseacta 16y agoThis is a matter of statistics for Wells Fargo. Of all their clients, maybe 1% do protest. The other 99% just go to the bank and pay the fees. Maybe the other 99% doesn't even read the statements and just go and pay. For them, it's all profits. Even paying this man and their attorneys to get to a settlement doesn't make a dent to the revenue they're receiving of the other 99%.