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My favourite idea is the internet. The romans could have done it with flags / torches and towers. Don't tell me it wouldn't pay for itself. Sending data over lo

My favourite idea is the internet. The romans could have done it with flags / torches and towers. Don't tell me it wouldn't pay for itself. Sending data over long distances at that type of speed would have paid for itself multiple times over, even if it were one tiny fraction of the bandwidth we have today.

anewvillager 7y ago
There's something like this in the movie Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LGJ7evrAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LGJ7evrAg I wonder if this method of communication was EVER used by any civilization.
- detaro 7y ago
  It's been described throughout history, so quite certainly.
  - anewvillager 7y ago
    Ohhhh, that's true! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beacon#For_defensive_communications_(historical) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beacon#For_defensive_communica...
- edoceo 7y ago
  It's in another cool fantasy movie, with signal towers, I can't find it now despite frantic Google (results terrible). Was very cool, wish I could remember the name.
coopsmgoops 7y ago
The French did it. Check out the wikipedia page on the "semephore telegraph"
- azepoi 7y ago
  It was used for military communication between front lines and Paris. It was also famously used for an early securities fraud scheme https://www.1843magazine.com/technology/rewind/the-crooked-timber-of-humanity https://www.1843magazine.com/technology/rewind/the-crooked-t...
apsec112 7y ago
Systems like this existed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_beacon_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_beacon_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_telegraph https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_telegraph but were far too expensive to be used by average citizens like the modern Internet.
- notahacker 7y ago
  The Romans themselves had them too: Hadrian's Wall on the border of Roman Britain and Scotland was one place to have a flag-based signalling system which allowed messages to be transmitted within minutes across the entire length of one of the empire's shorter borders. Given the bandwidth limitations when you're only able to transmit a restricted charset and take at least ten seconds to transmit each character and receive acknowledgement, it's hardly surprising that such systems were used to send a limited number of messages of military value rather than as a generalised communication tech, never mind an information retrieval tech.
agumonkey 7y ago
they tried some ideas https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-technology/hydraulic-telegraph-aeneas-long-distance-communication-antiquity-002185 https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-technology/hydraulic... I don't think the benefits would be that obvious. - unknown unknown, to them high bandwidth comms were not really a thing - technical challenges - rapid ROI opportunities ? - frequency of communications and long distances ? - benefits over simple fire / mirror systems ?
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  High-bandwidth comms would be 'sending for a book/scroll/papyrus/tablets'. Never underestimate the bandwidth of a cart loaded with papyri! I guess movable type increased effective bandwidth a lot.
  - agumonkey 7y ago
    True, although this just gives me one great benefit of 'immaterial' signals.. less opportunity for the messenger to be killed on the way to wherever. This would also put them into the modern variant of man-in-the-middle attack (which kinda existed in the renaissance, France had a case of remote insider trading for instance)
jrandm 7y ago
Going Postal by Terry Pratchett is a story involving a competition between a traditional post office and a light-based telegraph system called "clacks." You might enjoy the book and/or television adaptation. After his death a few years ago, an idea from the book was actually implemented on the internet and is the reason you see "GNU Terry Pratchett" around.[0][1] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/books/shortcuts/2015/mar/17/terry-pratchetts-name-lives-on-in-the-clacks-with-hidden-web-code https://www.theguardian.com/books/shortcuts/2015/mar/17/terr... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/2yt9j6/gnu_terry_pratchett/ https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/2yt9j6/gnu_terry...
fasteddie 7y ago
This is an important plot point in the book the excellent Sci Fi novel The Three Body Problem.

anewvillager 7y ago

There's something like this in the movie Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LGJ7evrAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LGJ7evrAg I wonder if this method of communication was EVER used by any civilization.

detaro 7y ago
It's been described throughout history, so quite certainly.
- anewvillager 7y ago
  Ohhhh, that's true! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beacon#For_defensive_communications_(historical) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beacon#For_defensive_communica...
edoceo 7y ago
It's in another cool fantasy movie, with signal towers, I can't find it now despite frantic Google (results terrible). Was very cool, wish I could remember the name.

coopsmgoops 7y ago

The French did it. Check out the wikipedia page on the "semephore telegraph"

azepoi 7y ago
It was used for military communication between front lines and Paris. It was also famously used for an early securities fraud scheme https://www.1843magazine.com/technology/rewind/the-crooked-timber-of-humanity https://www.1843magazine.com/technology/rewind/the-crooked-t...

apsec112 7y ago

Systems like this existed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_beacon_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_beacon_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_telegraph https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_telegraph but were far too expensive to be used by average citizens like the modern Internet.

notahacker 7y ago
The Romans themselves had them too: Hadrian's Wall on the border of Roman Britain and Scotland was one place to have a flag-based signalling system which allowed messages to be transmitted within minutes across the entire length of one of the empire's shorter borders. Given the bandwidth limitations when you're only able to transmit a restricted charset and take at least ten seconds to transmit each character and receive acknowledgement, it's hardly surprising that such systems were used to send a limited number of messages of military value rather than as a generalised communication tech, never mind an information retrieval tech.

agumonkey 7y ago

they tried some ideas https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-technology/hydraulic-telegraph-aeneas-long-distance-communication-antiquity-002185 https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-technology/hydraulic... I don't think the benefits would be that obvious. - unknown unknown, to them high bandwidth comms were not really a thing - technical challenges - rapid ROI opportunities ? - frequency of communications and long distances ? - benefits over simple fire / mirror systems ?

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
High-bandwidth comms would be 'sending for a book/scroll/papyrus/tablets'. Never underestimate the bandwidth of a cart loaded with papyri! I guess movable type increased effective bandwidth a lot.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  True, although this just gives me one great benefit of 'immaterial' signals.. less opportunity for the messenger to be killed on the way to wherever. This would also put them into the modern variant of man-in-the-middle attack (which kinda existed in the renaissance, France had a case of remote insider trading for instance)

jrandm 7y ago

Going Postal by Terry Pratchett is a story involving a competition between a traditional post office and a light-based telegraph system called "clacks." You might enjoy the book and/or television adaptation. After his death a few years ago, an idea from the book was actually implemented on the internet and is the reason you see "GNU Terry Pratchett" around.[0][1] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/books/shortcuts/2015/mar/17/terry-pratchetts-name-lives-on-in-the-clacks-with-hidden-web-code https://www.theguardian.com/books/shortcuts/2015/mar/17/terr... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/2yt9j6/gnu_terry_pratchett/ https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/2yt9j6/gnu_terry...

fasteddie 7y ago

This is an important plot point in the book the excellent Sci Fi novel The Three Body Problem.