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because they perform a service. they teach classes. that's literally what they were withholding - grades for classes they TA. so there is plenty of demand for t

because they perform a service. they teach classes. that's literally what they were withholding - grades for classes they TA. so there is plenty of demand for that service. it has nothing to do with the labor market after they graduate. god some people just fall all over themselves to be smug.

nostrebored 7y ago
If you want to have an actual conversation, I'm happy to. If not, let me know so I don't waste my time. They do perform a service, sometimes teaching classes, sometimes grading papers, sometimes assisting with office hours. They get paid $2400/mo, putting them above median salary for full-time TAs. Nobody is forcing them to go to graduate school in California and accept this job. This isn't something that they were coerced into. The fact of the matter is that research is still a demand driven field. This is why you'll see stipends and grants to assist students in higher demand fields, like computer science. When I was in school a few years ago, everyone knew that if they were not receiving a grant, they were going to be paying for their education. This isn't a surprise, and if they are willing to make the decision to fund their further education, that is something they should be able to do.
- throwqwerty 7y ago
  >Nobody is forcing them to go to graduate school in California and accept this job. This isn't something that they were coerced into. What is the significance of this point when literally no one is forced or coerced except for slaves? By this token absolutely no one should be striking for higher wages - they should all go work somewhere else. Oh wait... >They do perform a service, sometimes teaching classes, sometimes grading papers, sometimes assisting with office hours. They get paid $2400/mo, putting them above median salary for full-time TAs. Medían where? The entire United States? California? Santa Cruz? And exactly why is that relevant anyway? It's quite possible that the median wage isn't enough! And this would be part of the process for raising it. >The fact of the matter is that research is still a demand driven field. This is why you'll see stipends and grants to assist students in higher demand fields, like computer science. When you look at the average salary of a tenured UC professor (the kind that takes on grad students) and the average salary of appointed administrators (deans, provosts, etc) it's very hard to believe that the issue is lack of money and not allocation. I also have no idea what cs/stem has to do with this. Most stem PhDs don't get more money either (most do not have fellowships nor their own grants).
- asdff 7y ago
  Even if you receive the biggest stipend out of all graduate programs in the entire country in computer science or whatever stem subtype you'd like to name, it won't be much higher than 35k/yr. Grad students in top programs in Boston and the bay area are living on the razor edge of affording a roof and food. It doesn't get much easier in the midwest, either. Your rents are cheaper but your stipend is comparatively lower, and opportunities are more difficult to find compared to networking on the coasts which are hubs of tech and biotech. The current stipend is just not enough to pay for rent in Santa Cruz. In recent years the city has become a bedroom community for bay area commuters and appropriate housing supply hasn't been built to match the influx of people. There are grad students at ucsc where it is cheaper for them to fly across the world back to their home country for the summer than to live in Santa Cruz for those three months. There are also graduate students who entered their program under a different union contract, with a different rental market landscape, and now find themselves with the prospect of being unable to pay for a wildly higher rent than they expected from data from 2016, something that they couldn't forsee when the signed their fellowship contract 4 years ago, so yes, some of these students are being baited and screwed. On top of this, UCSC graduate students attempted to fix this at the negotiation table, but the agreement between all UC campuses and the greater graduate union did not take into account the rising cost of living in Santa Cruz when it was made; 83% of UCSC graduate students opposed this agreement at the time and their concerns were not heard by their union or the University of California. For many students, the choices are to starve, attempt to derail their life by dropping out of grad school and reset it in another field somewhere far away from California with their lack of disposable income to even fund a move like this, or to strike and attempt to improve the situation. I can't blame them at all.
- legolas2412 7y ago
  > This is why you'll see stipends and grants to assist students in higher demand fields, like computer science. They get the same salary more or less. The only difference is that they don't have to TA, but only research. Doesn't change how low that salary is.

nostrebored 7y ago

If you want to have an actual conversation, I'm happy to. If not, let me know so I don't waste my time. They do perform a service, sometimes teaching classes, sometimes grading papers, sometimes assisting with office hours. They get paid $2400/mo, putting them above median salary for full-time TAs. Nobody is forcing them to go to graduate school in California and accept this job. This isn't something that they were coerced into. The fact of the matter is that research is still a demand driven field. This is why you'll see stipends and grants to assist students in higher demand fields, like computer science. When I was in school a few years ago, everyone knew that if they were not receiving a grant, they were going to be paying for their education. This isn't a surprise, and if they are willing to make the decision to fund their further education, that is something they should be able to do.

throwqwerty 7y ago
>Nobody is forcing them to go to graduate school in California and accept this job. This isn't something that they were coerced into. What is the significance of this point when literally no one is forced or coerced except for slaves? By this token absolutely no one should be striking for higher wages - they should all go work somewhere else. Oh wait... >They do perform a service, sometimes teaching classes, sometimes grading papers, sometimes assisting with office hours. They get paid $2400/mo, putting them above median salary for full-time TAs. Medían where? The entire United States? California? Santa Cruz? And exactly why is that relevant anyway? It's quite possible that the median wage isn't enough! And this would be part of the process for raising it. >The fact of the matter is that research is still a demand driven field. This is why you'll see stipends and grants to assist students in higher demand fields, like computer science. When you look at the average salary of a tenured UC professor (the kind that takes on grad students) and the average salary of appointed administrators (deans, provosts, etc) it's very hard to believe that the issue is lack of money and not allocation. I also have no idea what cs/stem has to do with this. Most stem PhDs don't get more money either (most do not have fellowships nor their own grants).
asdff 7y ago
Even if you receive the biggest stipend out of all graduate programs in the entire country in computer science or whatever stem subtype you'd like to name, it won't be much higher than 35k/yr. Grad students in top programs in Boston and the bay area are living on the razor edge of affording a roof and food. It doesn't get much easier in the midwest, either. Your rents are cheaper but your stipend is comparatively lower, and opportunities are more difficult to find compared to networking on the coasts which are hubs of tech and biotech. The current stipend is just not enough to pay for rent in Santa Cruz. In recent years the city has become a bedroom community for bay area commuters and appropriate housing supply hasn't been built to match the influx of people. There are grad students at ucsc where it is cheaper for them to fly across the world back to their home country for the summer than to live in Santa Cruz for those three months. There are also graduate students who entered their program under a different union contract, with a different rental market landscape, and now find themselves with the prospect of being unable to pay for a wildly higher rent than they expected from data from 2016, something that they couldn't forsee when the signed their fellowship contract 4 years ago, so yes, some of these students are being baited and screwed. On top of this, UCSC graduate students attempted to fix this at the negotiation table, but the agreement between all UC campuses and the greater graduate union did not take into account the rising cost of living in Santa Cruz when it was made; 83% of UCSC graduate students opposed this agreement at the time and their concerns were not heard by their union or the University of California. For many students, the choices are to starve, attempt to derail their life by dropping out of grad school and reset it in another field somewhere far away from California with their lack of disposable income to even fund a move like this, or to strike and attempt to improve the situation. I can't blame them at all.
legolas2412 7y ago
> This is why you'll see stipends and grants to assist students in higher demand fields, like computer science. They get the same salary more or less. The only difference is that they don't have to TA, but only research. Doesn't change how low that salary is.