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This is one of those concepts that is obviously going to be great when it's ready for prime-time, but just isn't there yet. In a generation or two when the hea

This is one of those concepts that is obviously going to be great when it's ready for prime-time, but just isn't there yet. In a generation or two when the headsets are lighter (can be worn for a day without leaving an impression on your face as the current headsets do) and higher resolution (can actually replace a multi-monitor setup in number of pixels), I strongly believe this is going to be a killer app that could easily dwarf the gaming market for VR headsets. An interesting corollary of this is that now is probably a good time to start researching novel input devices, since there is an opportunity to create a completely new UI; if you can touchtype fluently then VR works fine, but if not, it's going to be challenging to use. As an example, Facebook is working on direct neural input devices: https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-acquires-ctrl-labs-develop-wrist-worn-input-device/ https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-acquires-ctrl-labs-develop... And I have had interesting conversations with neuroscientists about a bunch of intriguing ways that you could hook up an input device to the somatic nervous system. For most of these you'd need to learn a different set of "movements" than typing, so perhaps there's not an immediate win vs. just requiring users to learn to touchtype, but the benefits of being able to "type" characters in a UI without a keyboard are pretty clear.

nicoburns 7y ago
> if you can touchtype fluently then VR works fine, but if not, it's going to be challenging to use. Couldn't you just render the keyboard (+ finger positions I guess) inside the VR.
- all2 7y ago
  Use chording! Chording is (maybe?) similar to sign language and so "glyphs" or "chords" could be recognized by camera or finger position sensors.
  - techntoke 7y ago
    I think finger position sensors would be more ideal than camera recognition, since there are many times your fingers could become obfuscated behind other fingers or if you rotate your hand. RFID tags are cheap and can use passive power. I imagine with a bracelet transmitter and positioning device they could be tracked in real time and attached to the finger tips using a reusable adhesive. Should require minimal calibration and then would allow for new touch inputs for almost any device that is calibrated along with it. Could even make regular monitors touch screen.
- georgewsinger 7y ago
  FWIW Simula (shown above) has a mouse & keyboard view. Here's a short video showing what it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5c3Hfp8Hcw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5c3Hfp8Hcw
sneak 7y ago
> if you can touchtype fluently then VR works fine, but if not, it's going to be challenging to use. I am of the belief that if you are trying to increase your productivity whilst mobile with small/light stuff, nothing weighs less or takes up less space in your luggage than some touch typing training software. I can’t believe that there are people who type as much as some of us do who haven’t bothered to learn to type. It’s an essential skill.
- 0x38B 7y ago
  Funnily enough, I learned to touch type because tables at my uni were high enough to make typing uncomfortable. Putting my Magic Keyboard on my lap was much better, but without being able to see, I couldn't type well. Spent 10 minutes a day over the next couple weeks learning Colemak (easier than retraining myself on QWERTY). Being able to touch type numbers is great while programming.
- georgewsinger 7y ago
  @sneak The near-term dream goal/dream is installing something like Simula on a standalone VR headset, and pairing it with a bluetooth (perhaps even "pocket" bluetooth keyboard) to replace a laptop. Touch typing + bluetooth keyboard + VR headset = insane productivity potential.
  - sneak 7y ago
    Do you have any light/portable BT keyboards you like? I somewhat loathe the iPad Pro’s keyboard cover but every light BT I’ve ever tried was plasticky loud garbage. Do you have any recommendations?
    - georgewsinger 7y ago
      I've had reasonable succcess with this one: https://www.amazon.com/iClever-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Foldable-Smartphones/dp/B00YWLJNPQ/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=pocket+keyboard&qid=1583354645&sr=8-3 https://www.amazon.com/iClever-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Foldable-S... I like its compact design (it fits in a pocket), and it's very satisfying to fold/unfold :] That said, I don't use it that often because I find smartphone screen sizes too small.
georgewsinger 7y ago
@theptip I understand your skepticism, but people significantly underrate the quality of text that can be achieved in VR, even on today's hardware. Simula in particular has put in a lot of work in text resolution optimization (something that earlier VR Desktops failed completely at). This makes me able to use Simula for hours at a time, even on the old HTC Vive (2016 hardware). I won't lie and say it is equally impressive as a 4K monitor is today, but it's definitely usable and allows you to garner the other benefits of VR Desktop (10x more screens, 10x the size, 10x the focus/work immersions). RE headset size, I agree that today they are much too bulky. But they are still good enough to "live in the future" and get serious work done in. If you have an HTC Vive/Vive Pro/Valve Index, I can help you install Simula/give it a try. Contact me at george.w.singer [at] gmail [dot] com if you're interested.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  Please don't post the same thing over and over. But I don't know about "significantly underrate" either. The screens in the video you linked are 93x44 characters. It's certainly usable, but just my main screen holds 8 windows that size with a generous font and room to spare.

nicoburns 7y ago

> if you can touchtype fluently then VR works fine, but if not, it's going to be challenging to use. Couldn't you just render the keyboard (+ finger positions I guess) inside the VR.

all2 7y ago
Use chording! Chording is (maybe?) similar to sign language and so "glyphs" or "chords" could be recognized by camera or finger position sensors.
- techntoke 7y ago
  I think finger position sensors would be more ideal than camera recognition, since there are many times your fingers could become obfuscated behind other fingers or if you rotate your hand. RFID tags are cheap and can use passive power. I imagine with a bracelet transmitter and positioning device they could be tracked in real time and attached to the finger tips using a reusable adhesive. Should require minimal calibration and then would allow for new touch inputs for almost any device that is calibrated along with it. Could even make regular monitors touch screen.
georgewsinger 7y ago
FWIW Simula (shown above) has a mouse & keyboard view. Here's a short video showing what it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5c3Hfp8Hcw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5c3Hfp8Hcw

sneak 7y ago

> if you can touchtype fluently then VR works fine, but if not, it's going to be challenging to use. I am of the belief that if you are trying to increase your productivity whilst mobile with small/light stuff, nothing weighs less or takes up less space in your luggage than some touch typing training software. I can’t believe that there are people who type as much as some of us do who haven’t bothered to learn to type. It’s an essential skill.

0x38B 7y ago
Funnily enough, I learned to touch type because tables at my uni were high enough to make typing uncomfortable. Putting my Magic Keyboard on my lap was much better, but without being able to see, I couldn't type well. Spent 10 minutes a day over the next couple weeks learning Colemak (easier than retraining myself on QWERTY). Being able to touch type numbers is great while programming.
georgewsinger 7y ago
@sneak The near-term dream goal/dream is installing something like Simula on a standalone VR headset, and pairing it with a bluetooth (perhaps even "pocket" bluetooth keyboard) to replace a laptop. Touch typing + bluetooth keyboard + VR headset = insane productivity potential.
- sneak 7y ago
  Do you have any light/portable BT keyboards you like? I somewhat loathe the iPad Pro’s keyboard cover but every light BT I’ve ever tried was plasticky loud garbage. Do you have any recommendations?
  - georgewsinger 7y ago
    I've had reasonable succcess with this one: https://www.amazon.com/iClever-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Foldable-Smartphones/dp/B00YWLJNPQ/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=pocket+keyboard&qid=1583354645&sr=8-3 https://www.amazon.com/iClever-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Foldable-S... I like its compact design (it fits in a pocket), and it's very satisfying to fold/unfold :] That said, I don't use it that often because I find smartphone screen sizes too small.

georgewsinger 7y ago

@theptip I understand your skepticism, but people significantly underrate the quality of text that can be achieved in VR, even on today's hardware. Simula in particular has put in a lot of work in text resolution optimization (something that earlier VR Desktops failed completely at). This makes me able to use Simula for hours at a time, even on the old HTC Vive (2016 hardware). I won't lie and say it is equally impressive as a 4K monitor is today, but it's definitely usable and allows you to garner the other benefits of VR Desktop (10x more screens, 10x the size, 10x the focus/work immersions). RE headset size, I agree that today they are much too bulky. But they are still good enough to "live in the future" and get serious work done in. If you have an HTC Vive/Vive Pro/Valve Index, I can help you install Simula/give it a try. Contact me at george.w.singer [at] gmail [dot] com if you're interested.

Dylan16807 7y ago
Please don't post the same thing over and over. But I don't know about "significantly underrate" either. The screens in the video you linked are 93x44 characters. It's certainly usable, but just my main screen holds 8 windows that size with a generous font and room to spare.