4 ms·

Also, Glade looks ugly with Windows theme.

by zerr 7y ago

solarkraft 7y ago
Why would you use a Windows GTK theme?
- Fnoord 7y ago
  Red teaming; see Kali undercover mode [1] (screenshot only [2]). [1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/kali-linux-adds-undercover-mode-to-impersonate-windows-10/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/kali-linux-ad... [2] https://www.kali.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/kali-undercover-1.gif https://www.kali.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/kali-underco...
- chrismorgan 7y ago
  Perhaps because you're using Windows, to begin with. GTK talks of native look-and-feel, but it's very poor at Windows look or feel. I have evaluated GTK for building apps that would be primarily used on Windows, and I gave up in short order after trying quite a few themes (ones trying to be like Windows 7, 10/Win32, 10/UWP, &c.). They were uniformly woefully bad for both look and feel, on my high-DPI environment. I got the impression some of them would have been better on a low-DPI device, but every last one of them would still have been bad in various serious ways. It always started with the title bar looking and behaving completely incorrectly, so GTK apps on Windows that want to look not awful start by telling GTK to let the OS draw the title bar. Then you get your file picker modals; and things like Inkscape drop GTK on the floor there, and call the Win32 API instead, on Windows. And all this is fairly typical if you want it to feel native.
  - solarkraft 7y ago
    I was considering doing the "why would you use Windows?", but okay, some just still do. Do you really want your app to look Windows-native? I can't think of any large app doing it precisely because the standard widgets are ugly. Meanwhile I've seen GTK apps on Windows just using Adwaita, which I think looks very refreshing on there. You could use any other GTK theme as well.
    - chrismorgan 7y ago
      My biggest objection to Adwaita is that it’s awfully wasteful of space, especially on its buttons. As a particularly serious example, on my effectively-1500×1000 laptop, running the Inkscape 1.0 beta with its Win32 theme instead of Adwaita roughly doubles the canvas size available, assuming one sidebar open. (For more info about this, including also the woes of Inkscape’s Win32 look and feel—and Inkscape is honestly one of the very best GTK apps for nativeness on Windows, though this 1.0 beta has various regressions—skim through https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inbox/issues/879 https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inbox/issues/879 .) For starters, I think you’re underreckoning how many things look platform-native on Windows. To be sure, increasingly many things forsake it, primarily software using web tech to render, but there’s still a lot out there that’s fully native look-and-feel. And then there are degrees and degrees of native appearance—and what the definition of native is has shifted a couple of times over the course of the last two decades in Windows (the first form I have in mind will look different on XP, 7 and 10 from the same code, but I’m counting all those styles as one type of native). Anything that draws its own title bar is on thin ice, it’s probably doing the wrong thing, though it can be carried off well. (Office does it well, Chrome OK, GTK apps where they draw the title bar uniformly badly.) And then there are other widgets like dropdowns (<select> in HTML parlance) where GTK ones just behave in the wrong way, file pickers that are unfamiliar and don’t work right, &c. Oh yeah, GTK apps seem to typically be pretty bad at high-DPI on Windows. The GIMP handles its canvas scaling (i.e. the definition of “100%”) incorrectly, but has no other major issues; Inkscape has major issues (see the earlier link); EasyTAG has major issues that can be mostly worked around by overriding Windows’ treatment of it (and 2.4.3 made its appearance even worse, but fortunately (?) I had to switch back to 2.4.2 because 2.4.3 is basically completely broken (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/easytag/issues/5 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/easytag/issues/5), and no one seems to care); those are the only three GTK apps I have at present.
      - solarkraft 7y ago
        I only use Windows at work, so I don't know that many apps. Today I tried out gitg, a GTK git client that has a Windows build. Damn, it feels great.It ues the Adwaita theme with a client side header bar, which looks great, saves space over all and is only marginally thicker than any other Windows title bar (it even shows the dragging cursor when dragging, why the absolute does Windows not do this). Touchpad scrolling isn't smooth, which is a little bit sad, but generally I'm surprised by how well it works. From what I can tell scaling works perfectly and the file picker, which is not the native one, which is great, because it's less awful, seems to work well with the file system. Over all it's one of the Windows apps I hate the least - by staying as far from the platform as possible, UI wise. It feels a bit weird that this is coming from someone who likes to complain about GNOME.

Also, Glade looks ugly with Windows theme.

by zerr 7y ago

Also, Glade looks ugly with Windows theme.

solarkraft 7y ago

Why would you use a Windows GTK theme?

Fnoord 7y ago
Red teaming; see Kali undercover mode [1] (screenshot only [2]). [1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/kali-linux-adds-undercover-mode-to-impersonate-windows-10/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/kali-linux-ad... [2] https://www.kali.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/kali-undercover-1.gif https://www.kali.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/kali-underco...
chrismorgan 7y ago
Perhaps because you're using Windows, to begin with. GTK talks of native look-and-feel, but it's very poor at Windows look or feel. I have evaluated GTK for building apps that would be primarily used on Windows, and I gave up in short order after trying quite a few themes (ones trying to be like Windows 7, 10/Win32, 10/UWP, &c.). They were uniformly woefully bad for both look and feel, on my high-DPI environment. I got the impression some of them would have been better on a low-DPI device, but every last one of them would still have been bad in various serious ways. It always started with the title bar looking and behaving completely incorrectly, so GTK apps on Windows that want to look not awful start by telling GTK to let the OS draw the title bar. Then you get your file picker modals; and things like Inkscape drop GTK on the floor there, and call the Win32 API instead, on Windows. And all this is fairly typical if you want it to feel native.
- solarkraft 7y ago
  I was considering doing the "why would you use Windows?", but okay, some just still do. Do you really want your app to look Windows-native? I can't think of any large app doing it precisely because the standard widgets are ugly. Meanwhile I've seen GTK apps on Windows just using Adwaita, which I think looks very refreshing on there. You could use any other GTK theme as well.
  - chrismorgan 7y ago
    My biggest objection to Adwaita is that it’s awfully wasteful of space, especially on its buttons. As a particularly serious example, on my effectively-1500×1000 laptop, running the Inkscape 1.0 beta with its Win32 theme instead of Adwaita roughly doubles the canvas size available, assuming one sidebar open. (For more info about this, including also the woes of Inkscape’s Win32 look and feel—and Inkscape is honestly one of the very best GTK apps for nativeness on Windows, though this 1.0 beta has various regressions—skim through https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inbox/issues/879 https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inbox/issues/879 .) For starters, I think you’re underreckoning how many things look platform-native on Windows. To be sure, increasingly many things forsake it, primarily software using web tech to render, but there’s still a lot out there that’s fully native look-and-feel. And then there are degrees and degrees of native appearance—and what the definition of native is has shifted a couple of times over the course of the last two decades in Windows (the first form I have in mind will look different on XP, 7 and 10 from the same code, but I’m counting all those styles as one type of native). Anything that draws its own title bar is on thin ice, it’s probably doing the wrong thing, though it can be carried off well. (Office does it well, Chrome OK, GTK apps where they draw the title bar uniformly badly.) And then there are other widgets like dropdowns (<select> in HTML parlance) where GTK ones just behave in the wrong way, file pickers that are unfamiliar and don’t work right, &c. Oh yeah, GTK apps seem to typically be pretty bad at high-DPI on Windows. The GIMP handles its canvas scaling (i.e. the definition of “100%”) incorrectly, but has no other major issues; Inkscape has major issues (see the earlier link); EasyTAG has major issues that can be mostly worked around by overriding Windows’ treatment of it (and 2.4.3 made its appearance even worse, but fortunately (?) I had to switch back to 2.4.2 because 2.4.3 is basically completely broken (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/easytag/issues/5 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/easytag/issues/5), and no one seems to care); those are the only three GTK apps I have at present.
    - solarkraft 7y ago
      I only use Windows at work, so I don't know that many apps. Today I tried out gitg, a GTK git client that has a Windows build. Damn, it feels great.It ues the Adwaita theme with a client side header bar, which looks great, saves space over all and is only marginally thicker than any other Windows title bar (it even shows the dragging cursor when dragging, why the absolute does Windows not do this). Touchpad scrolling isn't smooth, which is a little bit sad, but generally I'm surprised by how well it works. From what I can tell scaling works perfectly and the file picker, which is not the native one, which is great, because it's less awful, seems to work well with the file system. Over all it's one of the Windows apps I hate the least - by staying as far from the platform as possible, UI wise. It feels a bit weird that this is coming from someone who likes to complain about GNOME.