7 ms·

Why do you (and others) think that education and academia is somehow special and not the same as, say, acting (or any career) where people regularly earn no mon

• chrisseaton 7y ago
  Society needs researchers - it doesn’t need actors.
  • thebean11 7y ago
    That's a pretty simplistic view of society. Do we need not need novels or music either? Let's drink nothing but soylent and devote 80 hours per week to our STEM careers
    • chrisseaton 7y ago
      People literally die without research into things like drugs. They don’t die without movies.
      • nico_h 7y ago
        there are a lot of anecdotes about how a song or a book or a movie changed someone's life.
        • craftinator 7y ago
          There are a lot of data about how many people have been saved through research. Anecdotes are data with n=1. Not a great comparison.
        • scarface74 7y ago
          > there are a lot of anecdotes.
        • andrepd 7y ago
          As opposed to research changing someone's life.
      • slavik81 7y ago
        There's more to living than not dying.
        • chrisseaton 7y ago
          Watching movies?
          • afthonos 7y ago
            Yes.
  • nkrisc 7y ago
    Who's going to entertain the researchers when they're not working? Or do you imagine they'll simply work every waking hour?
    • chrisseaton 7y ago
      Amazingly, there’s other ways to entertain yourself than zoning out in front of a screen.
      • nkrisc 7y ago
        Who said anything about a screen? Plays, live music, comedy, need I go on?
    • burntoutfire 7y ago
      Back in the day, people were actually entertaining themselves and their neighbors, via amateur community plays.
  • lostgame 7y ago
    I don’t want to live in whatever society you’re projecting here. I think that statement is incredibly narrow-minded. We need both.
    • chrisseaton 7y ago
      > I don’t want to live in whatever society you’re projecting here. I was describing society as it is now and explaining why researchers get more scholarships than actors do.
      • lostgame 7y ago
        Yet the best actors and musicians make far more in the long term, from the support of millions of people who evidently don’t think the way you do.
  • dang 7y ago
    HN needs not to have a flamewar about this.
• nico_h 7y ago
  First of all there is no such thing as a free market. Universities advertise good careers if you go through them, and I am not sure these numbers are as balanced as they could be. Second even if it were, there is a terrible imbalance of power between students, which are distributed actors with little to no individual power and little information or experience, vs a much bigger actor with more information and a lot of power in such a relationship. (From a comment in the other thread about this subject on how this particular market was skewed: https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/how-why-government-universities-industry-create-domestic-labor-shortages-of-scientists-high-tech-workers https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/how-why-gove... ) And janitor is in all likelihood a decent job with union protection (good for them).
  • tssva 7y ago
    The graduate students had union protection. They chose to disregard the contract the union had negotiated and membership had ratified in 2018 thus throwing away that union protection.
    • cardiffspaceman 7y ago
      As far as I can tell according to the article, the union did not support the UCSC strike but it has done some things that support the wildcat strikers, including filing an unfair labor practices suit against the university and openly commenting on the mistreatment of the strikers.
• rumanator 7y ago
  Unfortunately a PhD is sold as a key step for a well-paying and fulfilling career where you can make a difference. As we live in a society where education is fundamental to success and having a good life, a PhD is considered as the last and most exclusive step in a promising career path. But then the disappointing part is that the system in place is designed to exploit newcomers and place them in an abuse relationship where they are forced to go through the ringer as indentured servants hoping that their ultimate goal is just around the corner. You may quote simplistic cliches regarding economy and career choices, but the truth of the matter is that the grad school system is designed to be a monopoly where grad students have absolutely no power or influence over their career other than quitting, which ultimately results in total and definite exclusion from the industry, and thus are forced to endure years of indentured servitude. As a grad student you don't have the freedom to switch schools, negotiate your salary, or even be recognized as an employee. This example demonstrates the absolute lack of power or influence that grad students have: if you disagree with your supervisor then say goodbye to your whole career.
  • chrisseaton 7y ago
    But you don’t have to work for the university while you do your PhD if you don’t want to. I didn’t - I worked for a company instead. Maybe if the university had paid more I’d have worked for it instead.
    • rumanator 7y ago
      > But you don’t have to work for the university while you do your PhD if you don’t want to. Your comment is unrealistic and even absurd to the majority of those going through the PhD threadmill. It's like saying you can dunk a basketball if you'd want to. Sure, show me LeBron James and how easy it is for him, but for those of us who aren't benefitting from abnormal competitive advantages then it's not that realistic. How many people are lucky enough to be able to not only work a full-time job that pays the bills and is close enough to grad school and also be able to be in a field where literally part-time amateurs can do all the required academic work to write papers, a whole dissertation and defend a decent thesis? And in the end do well enough to aspire to have a career in your field of research? You have a better chance of dunking on LeBron James. "Let them eat cake."
• pergadad 7y ago
  In the Netherlands every PhD will be paid fairly decently. That's how it should be. Nor excuse for rich universities like those in UK & US to exploit those dreaming of s research career.
  • nostrebored 7y ago
    Maybe the number of anthropology researchers we deem appropriate as a society is actually not that high. Maybe if these people want to do anthropology research, they can, but at their own expense. When I was looking into doing grad school, I had no illusions that if I went in without a grant that I'd be doing anything other than scraping by. I have no idea why anyone would expect anything else.
  • SamReidHughes 7y ago
    Just with some fast googling, I think they're paid in about the same range as US PhD's. Or am I mistaken?
    • Symbiote 7y ago
      Without any searching, the cost of living is probably much higher in California.
    • barry-cotter 7y ago
      US universities don’t offer half time PhD studentships and then expect full time work. This was common in Germany when I had grad student acquaintances ten years ago. I doubt things have changed.
  • inferiorhuman 7y ago
    Even worse the UC system (and by extension UCSC) are state run institutions that get a hefty chunk of their operating budget from the state. They also prioritize foreign students over domestic as they pay higher tuition (nee fees as it was illegal in California for UC and CSU schools to charge tuition for a very long time). The state should not be in the business of exploiting cheap labor. Period. It's fucking absurd how top heavy the state run universities (especially UC) are. I would hope that grad students at other UC campuses would strike in solidarity, but knowing that UC's got them by the short and curlies I doubt that'll happen.
• dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >Also I am sure the janitor at the University is paid decently and loves to work there. Reason is there are not as many people lined up for that job and basic economics takes over. Janitor and other unskilled labor jobs at public universities tend to pay crap but are highly sought after because they usually come with the union negotiated benefits package that makes them a better value (than local work in private industry for more money and less benefits) for many people. Back when I was doing those kinds of jobs I wouldn't even think about wasting my time working for a public university but I was young and needed the money more than I needed healthcare and 40hr weeks.
  • asdff 7y ago
    Another huge benefit is some schools offer reduced or free tuition to your children.