7 ms·
Killing progress of economy would make the planet much much worse off long term. Notice how the richest countries have the cleanest environments - that's not b
by ars 7y ago
Killing progress of economy would make the planet much much worse off long term.
Notice how the richest countries have the cleanest environments - that's not by happenstance, it's because with basic needs met, people are willing to spend effort on the environment.
- t-writescode 7y agoIt might also be able to be argued that those countries refuse to allow production that includes all those chemicals, so we offload that production to other countries that aren’t so strict, suggesting that we ourselves and our wants are a major source of their production and that all these advanced countries are doing a great job contributing to pollution, just through a middle man.
- seanmcdirmid 7y agoOr that companies that could do the job with lower pollution at greater cost domestically are outcompetes by companies that do not have to worry about pollution. For example, China’s cheaper but polluting processing of rare earths drove everyone else outside of China out of business. Trade agreements will eventually have to capture externalities like pollution to ensure fairness. Otherwise, capitalism will simply not work when different companies get to play by different rules based on their location.
- t-writescode 7y agoWell, capitalism will continue to work great at what it does. The problem is that pollution isn't really something capitalism tends to select for.
- hnews_account_1 7y agoWhat is this basic bullshit? Who makes China so polluted? Are the Chinese themselves consuming all the shit they make that makes their cities polluted? Or is it the rest of the world and China grew by being a massive net exporter? This is like how the British lamented about the abject poverty in India after raping the country for hundreds of years. "willing to spend effort on the environment" my ass. Move the production chains back into those countries. We'll see how long the air remains clear despite temperate latitudes having the benefit of better weather systems.
- xupybd 7y agoAs China gets wealth they will reduce their environmental impact. They will have the money to do so. It's not blaming them to state that poorer countries don't have the resources to clean up their production. Progress is required to develop clean energy, that will require economic activity.
- uk_programmer 7y agoChina (as in the Chinese Government as the ruling class there aren't the people) would have to actually care about something other than themselves. The Government that is in place does not care about Human Life or Suffering why would you think they would care for the Animals, Birds and Fish?
- boomboomsubban 7y agoEven accepting you're incredibly cynical view of the Chinese state, they would care about nature as it has an influence on their lives.
- uk_programmer 7y agoIt isn't a cynical view. it is reality. The Chinese state have shown ever since Mao they have little or no regard for Human life. Off the top of my head (I am sure there is much more): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward#Treatment_of_villagers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward#Treatment_o... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45474279 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45474279 Also their response so far to the current Epidemic i.e. trying to cover it up has cost the lives of people in many countries. But apparently I am being cynical ...
- powerapple 7y agoChina reported cases to WHO by the end of December. Maybe they didn't manage it well (i.e. didn't block the whole city when cases were discovered maybe), it is a tough decision. It is so easy to say what to do now when you have seen everything. How is British care about humans when they started forcing Opium trade to China?
- byw 7y ago>Notice how the richest countries have the cleanest environments Per capita rich countries produce much higher CO2 though.
- yibg 7y agoThat’s not because the richer countries are being “clean” as in consuming less resources and polluting less. They are just doing it less in their boarders. They are exporting the dirty manufacturing and in many cases literally trash to poorer countries. If every country became like the US in terms of wealth and consumption tomorrow we are all screwed.