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They are not a subject for pedestrians, they are just cars. As far as other drivers are concerned, the only problem is that over the years they started looking

by wott 7y ago

They are not a subject for pedestrians, they are just cars. As far as other drivers are concerned, the only problem is that over the years they started looking more and more like 'regular' cars, so 'regular' drivers coming behind are surprised because they wrongly estimate their speed (well in fact they don't estimate anything, they have the mental model that cars always drive around 80 km/h, and bicycle around 15 km/h, so they are surprised both ways when a car or bicycle goes around 40 km/h). But drivers must be reminded that normal roads are not a space reserved for cars, motorbikes and lorries cruising all the time near the speed limit, but can be rightfully used by any kind of vehicles (tractors with or without trailers, bicycles, horse-drawn carriages and so on), and that they can be encountered moving at any speed in ]0, speed limit] for a good reason.

wenc 7y ago
Thanks for that. To what extent do these drivers know to follow the the more complex rules of the road, say left turns, four way stops, roundabout etiquette etc. without having gone through any licensing? I want to say the same issue applies to cyclists, but then the compliance rate of cyclists is not high. The only consolation is that cyclists loo sufficiently different from cars that drivers give them a wide berth.
- jobigoud 7y ago
  We don't have 4-way stops, it's roundabouts everywhere. (Need to u-turn? Just drive a few hundred meters more to the next roundabout). In my experience they drive as well/bad as other drivers, just slower. Even in 50 km/h areas you'll see them drive at 20/30. Generally not a problem in cities. On bigger roads I've seen some move a bit to the side so you can overtake them more easily.
- benhurmarcel 7y ago
  > without having gone through any licensing? You actually need an AM license, which is a 1 day training.
  - wenc 7y ago
    Fascinating Voitures sans permis (VSPs) can be driven by anyone aged 14 and up and are limited to 45 kph—just 28 mph. VSPs can’t be driven on expressways or highways, since a 28-mph top speed and, well, you get it. Drivers must only acquire what’s known as an AM category license, which requires a seven-hour training course, of which only four hours are spent driving on roads. Those born before 1988 require no license at all. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15345640/an-aixam-to-grind-a-sub-class-of-tiny-french-cars-that-caters-to-drunks-the-elderly-and-kids/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15345640/an-aixam-to-grin...

by wott 7y ago

wenc 7y ago

Thanks for that. To what extent do these drivers know to follow the the more complex rules of the road, say left turns, four way stops, roundabout etiquette etc. without having gone through any licensing? I want to say the same issue applies to cyclists, but then the compliance rate of cyclists is not high. The only consolation is that cyclists loo sufficiently different from cars that drivers give them a wide berth.

jobigoud 7y ago
We don't have 4-way stops, it's roundabouts everywhere. (Need to u-turn? Just drive a few hundred meters more to the next roundabout). In my experience they drive as well/bad as other drivers, just slower. Even in 50 km/h areas you'll see them drive at 20/30. Generally not a problem in cities. On bigger roads I've seen some move a bit to the side so you can overtake them more easily.
benhurmarcel 7y ago
> without having gone through any licensing? You actually need an AM license, which is a 1 day training.
- wenc 7y ago
  Fascinating Voitures sans permis (VSPs) can be driven by anyone aged 14 and up and are limited to 45 kph—just 28 mph. VSPs can’t be driven on expressways or highways, since a 28-mph top speed and, well, you get it. Drivers must only acquire what’s known as an AM category license, which requires a seven-hour training course, of which only four hours are spent driving on roads. Those born before 1988 require no license at all. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15345640/an-aixam-to-grind-a-sub-class-of-tiny-french-cars-that-caters-to-drunks-the-elderly-and-kids/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15345640/an-aixam-to-grin...