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I think what Japan really needs to do is to run a campaign to change the culture. One of the problems is that they put too much confidence in face masks. What t

I think what Japan really needs to do is to run a campaign to change the culture. One of the problems is that they put too much confidence in face masks. What they need to do is run a message that if you show any symptoms then stay home and avoid contact altogether. Most of these masks are just toys and not air tight at all. One experiment you can do with the mask is go outside in cold weather, so that you can see the steam when you breathe. You will notice that when you breathe, most of air is actually escaping through the edges of the mask and around the nose. Also, there is a culture of not staying home when you're sick. It's normal to continue going to work with a cold / other infection, or school or shop. Sick leave is frowned upon. Just put on a mask and you're all sweet, right? That has to change.

jesuschroist 7y ago
And provide soap at sinks in public bathrooms.
- FreeHugs 7y ago
  Is using the tap and soap of a public bathroom really reducing the chances of virus/bacteria infection? Or is it increasing them because the soap and tap carry viruses and bacteria themselfes?
  - hadtodoit 7y ago
    Not sure if you've been to Japan but they have some of the cleanest public facilities I've seen in spite of all the traffic. I'm sure people are coming through multiple times a day to wipe down all fomites.
    - FreeHugs 7y ago
      Maybe. But does that answer my question? If you touch the soap and the tap, that will surely transfer germs to your hands that the person before you left there?
      - hadtodoit 7y ago
        I believe I did answer your question. Washing your hands will always be better than not. Many modern buildings also have automated water/soap/towel dispensers. And you can always use the towel to open the door.
        perl4ever 7y ago
        Yes, but on your way into the stall, you touched the stall door, and then you touched other things, including your clothing, which you didn't wash on the way out, only your hands.
      - javagram 7y ago
        Touching the soap doesn’t matter at all. You’re about to wash it all off your hands. Soap and water definitely work to reduce infections, even when using a shared sink. Look up what happened in the 19th century when people finally figured this out and started hand washing regularly, infectious disease transmission in settings like hospitals dropped dramatically.
        copperx 7y ago
        In the 19th century infections were cut drastically when hands were washed with water only. Imagine what soap can do.
        literallycancer 7y ago
        They started from not washing hands between autopsies and surgeries though. Talk about low hanging fruit.
      - omegaworks 7y ago
        Germs probably survive better on your skin than on the cold metal tap in the bathroom. Food safe handwashing says use a paper towel to turn off the tap after you are done drying your hands with it.
    - robocat 7y ago
      Fomite - Wikipedia: A fomes or fomite is any inanimate object that, when contaminated with or exposed to infectious agents can transfer disease to a new host. E.g. tap, couch, bench, hat. New word to me and I have a pretty good vocab, so
  - beenBoutIT 7y ago
    Not unless you go out of your way to avoid touching everything. The act of washing with soap and water removes your personal fecal bacteria and turning off the water replaces it with whatever filth is on the knobs. Ditto if you touch the door knob/handle on the way out.
    - javagram 7y ago
      Use a paper towel on the door knob to avoid infection. Most public bathrooms have automatic taps now that I see.
      - myhf 7y ago
        Most public bathrooms also have automatic doors (if you wait long enough)
  - wonnage 7y ago
    HN, where techies attempt to make logical arguments for why they don't wash after they shit
    - viraptor 7y ago
      Why not HN, where techies try to understand processes which may seem counterintuitive once you actually start thinking about them?
  - johnisgood 7y ago
    Sensor tap + sensor liquid soap dispenser + automatic doors. No touching required.
- xioxox 7y ago
  And what about those hand dryers? Do they just blow droplets containing the virus around the place?
  - copperx 7y ago
    Air driers have shown to be terrible for hygiene. But they're convenient and save paper.
    - Area12 7y ago
      Convenient for me? No, I either stand there forever or leave with semi-wet hands. Paper towels work much faster and more effective, but the decision is made by facilities.
      - anchpop 7y ago
        Your hands dry much quicker under a hand dryer if you rub them together. I see so many people who just leave their hands flaccid and it takes a lot longer
      - mindslight 7y ago
        Air dryers also leave you with nothing to open the door with.
        Ghjklov 7y ago
        That drives me nuts... Need to always carry some paper towels on hand for times like that.
        jbay808 7y ago
        I keep wondering why bathroom doors aren't designed to swing outwards by default. Then you could open them without touching a handle.
        germinalphrase 7y ago
tus88 7y ago
Unfortunately it takes 2 weeks to show symptoms.
- raphaelj 7y ago
  But luckily most of the contamination happens through cough, so that these people that don't show symptoms are also less contagious.
  - beenBoutIT 7y ago
    The Mybusters really do a great job of explaining contamination visually in this segment. https://youtu.be/k1j8bh8_O_Q https://youtu.be/k1j8bh8_O_Q You don't want to be in the same building as a sick person, let alone anywhere near them in a smaller space like an office or restroom.
    - Noumenon72 7y ago
      That video doesn't cover aerial contamination. The kind it shows is just hand-to-hand, then hand-to-face. Don't touch your face, and the germs stay on the outside of your hands, far from your mucus membranes. I've had very good results from this.
- paulmd 7y ago
  And some case studies of disease clusters have strongly suggested asymptomatic transmission. Asymptomatic individuals who spread it to a bunch of family members despite having no symptoms, then tested positive for the disease themselves once identified. There's no containing it at this point, the best you could do is slow it down until there's a vaccine.
watwut 7y ago
Then again, most people elsewhere dont wear masks at all and dont stay at home when they are sick. While there is definitely less stigma for staying home, people still dont want to do it and act offended when you complain about them being sick in work.
pwthornton 7y ago
Yes, only certain masks will even do anything. But... Even then you need to make sure the mask fits. In hospitals, they do tests to find the right fit for nurses and doctors to check airflow. They can be a good tool in certain situations, but random people placing a bunch of faith in them over other solutions is probably not helping.
sleavey 7y ago
Aren't the main benefits of the mask the fact that you don't touch your face as much with potentially infected hands, and any sudden coughs or sneezes from the wearer are contained in the mask for others' benefit?
- neaden 7y ago
  It's the opposite, when you are wearing one of those masks you touch your face more often. It also is a warm damp environment for bacteria. Now if you are sick and you are travelling to the doctors or something, then yes, a mask is a good idea. If you are healthy and trying not to be sick a mask is a bad idea, gloves and frequent handwashing with soap and water is a much better plan.
  - Razengan 7y ago
    > It's the opposite, when you are wearing one of those masks you touch your face more often. What?? How do you figure that?
    - neaden 7y ago
      People adjust the masks often. They aren't very comfortable and it's unpleasant to wear them for long, they can feel itchy which promotes face touching. The seal around your mouth probably won't be great unless you've been fit-tested as well so you'll be tempted to touch there.
      - Razengan 7y ago
        All of those sound like issues that would be fixed by using better masks, that fit snugly and feel comfortable, and can be washed or even medicated, instead of the very cheap disposables.
      - mekster 7y ago
        Where are you getting your stories from? I don't see people keep touching to adjust. People in Japan are used to wearing them for the pollen seasons.
munificent 7y ago
> most of air is actually escaping through the edges of the mask and around the nose. Why is that a problem? My expectation is that what matters is: 1. Air that you inhale comes through the mask filter. It's not necesarily the case that inhaling and exhaling have symmetric effects. When you exhale, you increase air pressure inside the mask, which pushes it away from your face and opens the seals around the edge. When you inhale, I expect it would seal tighter. You can exhale while wearing a swimming mask and bubbles go everywhere. That doesn't mean the mask isn't otherwise water tight. 2. Aerosol particles from infected people coughing and sneezing get caught by the mask and don't go into your airways. 3. You don't touch your face with your hands.
- TrueGeek 7y ago
  The masks aren’t fine enough to trap germ particles coming in. There are such masks (n95) but these are more expensive, and require fitting and training to use. The off the shelf masks people are using do nothing for healthy people.
  - primordiaal 7y ago
    "Well, Technically", 3-ply masks are fine enough to trap germ particles. They consist of a woven:non-woven:woven layer, the non-woven layer blocking nanometer particles. If you look at a n95 mask, it has the same woven:non-woven:woven layer structure. The problem of 3-ply masks is that 10-25% of the air you inhale leak from the side/nose, bypassing the filter. n95 mask "fixes" the problem by tight(er) fitting, not by additional filtering layers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonwoven_fabric https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonwoven_fabric
  - Kiro 7y ago
    > training to use I keep hearing this but don't understand. What exactly needs training?
    - huonpine 7y ago
      Common sense
Raphmedia 7y ago
Masks in Japan are based on the desire of Japaneses not to infect others and not to spread their own germs. They won't filter the air coming in or out, but they'll catch a sneeze and a cough. They also make it so you don't put your fingers in your mouth or nose. It's the sick that wear them. You barely see them elsewhere because the idea of "wear something uncomfortable for the sake of others" is a hard sell in the west.
- cpeterso 7y ago
  If you are sick enough to wear a mask in public, you should probably just stay home.
  - Raphmedia 7y ago
    "According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the average number of paid sick days often corresponds directly with years of service. Here are the averages for workers in private industry: Workers receive 7 sick days per year with 1 to 5 years of service. Workers receive 8 sick days per year with 5 to 10 years of service." + "For colds, most individuals become contagious about a day before cold symptoms develop and remain contagious for about five to seven days." / "If you have the flu, you'll be contagious one day before developing symptoms and up to five to seven days after becoming ill." = One cold would take up all your sick days. By following your recommendation, someone falling sick more than once a year would have to quit their job.
    - DelightOne 7y ago
      Doesn't sound nice true. How do you transmit the flu to others without symptoms like sneezing/running nose?
      - chmod775 7y ago
        There exists a metric ton of other possible vectors for viruses to spread. It depends on the virus though. We don't yet conclusively know what vectors this virus can use to spread.
endemic 7y ago
> Also, there is a culture of not staying home when you're sick That's been my experience in the US, but in Japan? While briefly living there, I was shocked when my 22 year old neighbor stayed home because of a common cold.
- jcriddle4 7y ago
  I suspect it is more company/occupation specific. High paying white collar workers are probably much more likely to be able to stay home. Low pay workers, likely have much less vacation benefits and all and must come to work. Me specifically I have over enough PTO with no prior vacation commitments that a week off it not a problem.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    "High paying white collar workers" or even mediocre paid white collar workers are more likely to be working from home when sick. I have never had a job where I felt comfortable and able to take a sick day because I had "just" a cold, but since I've had an office job where working from home was allowed, I would also not feel comfortable coming into the office sick.
Razengan 7y ago
Masks are also worn for privacy and social anxiety. They can be fashionable [0]. And, it's sad to even have to mention this, but as an added bonus for the dystopia we seem to be headed into, they also hinder mass surveillance. Apparently there are/were attempts to ban masks during the unrest in Hong Kong. I recall this video [1] where people say they like how masks keep their faces warm, and they can feel free to sing to a song in public without feeling embarrassed. :) [0] https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=face+mask+fashion https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=face+mask+fashion [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW67Hd7RJgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW67Hd7RJgQ
- wendyshu 7y ago
  Social anxiety? They'd make communication more difficult not less.
  - Razengan 7y ago
    Social anxiety manifests differently for different people. Some prefer to stay as "invisible" as possible, some don't like other people focusing on their face.
fspeech 7y ago
Unfortunately Wuhan experience showed that home isolation doesn't work. Caretakers will get infected. People also have needs that will make them or their caretakers go outside.
- irjustin 7y ago
  How did you reach the conclusion that home isolation doesn't work? Seems quite hyperbolic. It works and is part of the whole solution. A clear downside is caretakers/food delivery can get infected, but it is much harder to spread. The data shows that isolation is helping [1], China minus the outside world shows diminishing new cases in China. [1] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/
  - fspeech 7y ago
    That is the point: China does not do home isolation. Wuhan had no choice but to try that in the beginning and it did not work. Things only started to improve when Wuhan were able to collect patients into quarantine sites.
    - irjustin 7y ago
      Ebola is closer to what you're describing. 2-21 days to show symptoms and you're only contagious after symptoms arise. Isolation 100% works. Corona is closer the flu/common-cold in terms of transmission. Quarantining patients is too late. The viral point is the 14-21 day incubation period where patients aren't showing symptoms yet very able to spread the disease, which is the whole reason why it's so scary and affecting the world markets. If Wuhan removed home isolation and everyone was allowed to go back to the old way of life, the virus would spread again. I'm not sure how you can argue against home isolation. I haven't been convinced of what you claim; that it isn't helping.
      - fspeech 7y ago
        Incubation is typically 4 to 7 days. Home isolation depends on compliance. Patients and their families will be hard pressed to comply if their medical and other needs can not be met.
japan-covid 7y ago
I'm surprised this a top comment on such a popular submission. To give this reply a little perspective, I'm from Taiwan and currently live in Vancouver. It is very disingenuous to conclude what's happening in Japan is because of (the mask, and sick leave) culture. It is what makes me nervous about North America's preparedness. I'm assuming you are from NA since US CDC keeps telling the public that masks aren't effective. IMO they're just saying that to not cause a panic of people grabbing masks. Plus, they have a point. Most North Americans just aren't used to wearing one, so might make the wearers touch their faces even more. This is not true in a lot of Asian countries. The general public in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and Hong Kong are all very accustomed to people wearing masks in public places, especially on mass transit systems. The density is just night and day compared to most of North America except maybe New York. Some wear it to stop the spread of disease, other comments have mentioned being a substitute for make-up, or also common: as a face shield when riding bicycles or scooters in the winter (much like a ski mask). Anyways, the point is that it is extremely common place. If you've worn it a couple of times you won't keep touching it. > One of the problems is that they put too much confidence in face masks. The mask is just the first line of defense. No one thinks masks are the be-all and end-all solution. After the outbreak in Iran, I'm seeing more and more Middle Easterners wear masks on the street. I'll bet you money when it starts spreading locally in North American communities you are going to see more people wear masks no matter their skin color or 'culture' (if they can get any). Check out the Italians wearing masks. [1] > Most of these masks are just toys and not air tight at all. Plenty of others corrected you on this so I won't go into it much. Basically, it's to block droplets (from leaving you and attached to other people and places like handles on buses etc.) It's not filtration. It also acts as a barrier if you are in close contact to someone who is sick. > Also, there is a culture of not staying home when you're sick. This annoys me the most. Us working in the technology sector have generous sick day policies, or even better remote work policies. But most people don't. There are plenty of people of all ages and colors and backgrounds that cough openly during my morning commute. This culture HAS to change but it's definitely not limited just Asia, let alone Japan. 1. https://www.gazettenet.com/Italy-rushes-to-contain-Europe-s-first-major-virus-outbreak-32880840 https://www.gazettenet.com/Italy-rushes-to-contain-Europe-s-...
29athrowaway 7y ago
What's worse is that they take their masks off to sneeze so they can continue using the same mask.

jesuschroist 7y ago

And provide soap at sinks in public bathrooms.

FreeHugs 7y ago
Is using the tap and soap of a public bathroom really reducing the chances of virus/bacteria infection? Or is it increasing them because the soap and tap carry viruses and bacteria themselfes?
- hadtodoit 7y ago
  Not sure if you've been to Japan but they have some of the cleanest public facilities I've seen in spite of all the traffic. I'm sure people are coming through multiple times a day to wipe down all fomites.
  - FreeHugs 7y ago
    Maybe. But does that answer my question? If you touch the soap and the tap, that will surely transfer germs to your hands that the person before you left there?
    - hadtodoit 7y ago
      I believe I did answer your question. Washing your hands will always be better than not. Many modern buildings also have automated water/soap/towel dispensers. And you can always use the towel to open the door.
      - perl4ever 7y ago
        Yes, but on your way into the stall, you touched the stall door, and then you touched other things, including your clothing, which you didn't wash on the way out, only your hands.
    - javagram 7y ago
      Touching the soap doesn’t matter at all. You’re about to wash it all off your hands. Soap and water definitely work to reduce infections, even when using a shared sink. Look up what happened in the 19th century when people finally figured this out and started hand washing regularly, infectious disease transmission in settings like hospitals dropped dramatically.
      - copperx 7y ago
        In the 19th century infections were cut drastically when hands were washed with water only. Imagine what soap can do.
      - literallycancer 7y ago
        They started from not washing hands between autopsies and surgeries though. Talk about low hanging fruit.
    - omegaworks 7y ago
      Germs probably survive better on your skin than on the cold metal tap in the bathroom. Food safe handwashing says use a paper towel to turn off the tap after you are done drying your hands with it.
  - robocat 7y ago
    Fomite - Wikipedia: A fomes or fomite is any inanimate object that, when contaminated with or exposed to infectious agents can transfer disease to a new host. E.g. tap, couch, bench, hat. New word to me and I have a pretty good vocab, so
- beenBoutIT 7y ago
  Not unless you go out of your way to avoid touching everything. The act of washing with soap and water removes your personal fecal bacteria and turning off the water replaces it with whatever filth is on the knobs. Ditto if you touch the door knob/handle on the way out.
  - javagram 7y ago
    Use a paper towel on the door knob to avoid infection. Most public bathrooms have automatic taps now that I see.
    - myhf 7y ago
      Most public bathrooms also have automatic doors (if you wait long enough)
- wonnage 7y ago
  HN, where techies attempt to make logical arguments for why they don't wash after they shit
  - viraptor 7y ago
    Why not HN, where techies try to understand processes which may seem counterintuitive once you actually start thinking about them?
- johnisgood 7y ago
  Sensor tap + sensor liquid soap dispenser + automatic doors. No touching required.
xioxox 7y ago
And what about those hand dryers? Do they just blow droplets containing the virus around the place?
- copperx 7y ago
  Air driers have shown to be terrible for hygiene. But they're convenient and save paper.
  - Area12 7y ago
    Convenient for me? No, I either stand there forever or leave with semi-wet hands. Paper towels work much faster and more effective, but the decision is made by facilities.
    - anchpop 7y ago
      Your hands dry much quicker under a hand dryer if you rub them together. I see so many people who just leave their hands flaccid and it takes a lot longer
    - mindslight 7y ago
      Air dryers also leave you with nothing to open the door with.
      - Ghjklov 7y ago
        That drives me nuts... Need to always carry some paper towels on hand for times like that.
      - jbay808 7y ago
        I keep wondering why bathroom doors aren't designed to swing outwards by default. Then you could open them without touching a handle.
        germinalphrase 7y ago

tus88 7y ago

Unfortunately it takes 2 weeks to show symptoms.

raphaelj 7y ago
But luckily most of the contamination happens through cough, so that these people that don't show symptoms are also less contagious.
- beenBoutIT 7y ago
  The Mybusters really do a great job of explaining contamination visually in this segment. https://youtu.be/k1j8bh8_O_Q https://youtu.be/k1j8bh8_O_Q You don't want to be in the same building as a sick person, let alone anywhere near them in a smaller space like an office or restroom.
  - Noumenon72 7y ago
    That video doesn't cover aerial contamination. The kind it shows is just hand-to-hand, then hand-to-face. Don't touch your face, and the germs stay on the outside of your hands, far from your mucus membranes. I've had very good results from this.
paulmd 7y ago
And some case studies of disease clusters have strongly suggested asymptomatic transmission. Asymptomatic individuals who spread it to a bunch of family members despite having no symptoms, then tested positive for the disease themselves once identified. There's no containing it at this point, the best you could do is slow it down until there's a vaccine.

watwut 7y ago

Then again, most people elsewhere dont wear masks at all and dont stay at home when they are sick. While there is definitely less stigma for staying home, people still dont want to do it and act offended when you complain about them being sick in work.

pwthornton 7y ago

Yes, only certain masks will even do anything. But... Even then you need to make sure the mask fits. In hospitals, they do tests to find the right fit for nurses and doctors to check airflow. They can be a good tool in certain situations, but random people placing a bunch of faith in them over other solutions is probably not helping.

sleavey 7y ago

Aren't the main benefits of the mask the fact that you don't touch your face as much with potentially infected hands, and any sudden coughs or sneezes from the wearer are contained in the mask for others' benefit?

neaden 7y ago
It's the opposite, when you are wearing one of those masks you touch your face more often. It also is a warm damp environment for bacteria. Now if you are sick and you are travelling to the doctors or something, then yes, a mask is a good idea. If you are healthy and trying not to be sick a mask is a bad idea, gloves and frequent handwashing with soap and water is a much better plan.
- Razengan 7y ago
  > It's the opposite, when you are wearing one of those masks you touch your face more often. What?? How do you figure that?
  - neaden 7y ago
    People adjust the masks often. They aren't very comfortable and it's unpleasant to wear them for long, they can feel itchy which promotes face touching. The seal around your mouth probably won't be great unless you've been fit-tested as well so you'll be tempted to touch there.
    - Razengan 7y ago
      All of those sound like issues that would be fixed by using better masks, that fit snugly and feel comfortable, and can be washed or even medicated, instead of the very cheap disposables.
    - mekster 7y ago
      Where are you getting your stories from? I don't see people keep touching to adjust. People in Japan are used to wearing them for the pollen seasons.

munificent 7y ago

> most of air is actually escaping through the edges of the mask and around the nose. Why is that a problem? My expectation is that what matters is: 1. Air that you inhale comes through the mask filter. It's not necesarily the case that inhaling and exhaling have symmetric effects. When you exhale, you increase air pressure inside the mask, which pushes it away from your face and opens the seals around the edge. When you inhale, I expect it would seal tighter. You can exhale while wearing a swimming mask and bubbles go everywhere. That doesn't mean the mask isn't otherwise water tight. 2. Aerosol particles from infected people coughing and sneezing get caught by the mask and don't go into your airways. 3. You don't touch your face with your hands.

TrueGeek 7y ago
The masks aren’t fine enough to trap germ particles coming in. There are such masks (n95) but these are more expensive, and require fitting and training to use. The off the shelf masks people are using do nothing for healthy people.
- primordiaal 7y ago
  "Well, Technically", 3-ply masks are fine enough to trap germ particles. They consist of a woven:non-woven:woven layer, the non-woven layer blocking nanometer particles. If you look at a n95 mask, it has the same woven:non-woven:woven layer structure. The problem of 3-ply masks is that 10-25% of the air you inhale leak from the side/nose, bypassing the filter. n95 mask "fixes" the problem by tight(er) fitting, not by additional filtering layers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonwoven_fabric https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonwoven_fabric
- Kiro 7y ago
  > training to use I keep hearing this but don't understand. What exactly needs training?
  - huonpine 7y ago
    Common sense

Raphmedia 7y ago

Masks in Japan are based on the desire of Japaneses not to infect others and not to spread their own germs. They won't filter the air coming in or out, but they'll catch a sneeze and a cough. They also make it so you don't put your fingers in your mouth or nose. It's the sick that wear them. You barely see them elsewhere because the idea of "wear something uncomfortable for the sake of others" is a hard sell in the west.

cpeterso 7y ago
If you are sick enough to wear a mask in public, you should probably just stay home.
- Raphmedia 7y ago
  "According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the average number of paid sick days often corresponds directly with years of service. Here are the averages for workers in private industry: Workers receive 7 sick days per year with 1 to 5 years of service. Workers receive 8 sick days per year with 5 to 10 years of service." + "For colds, most individuals become contagious about a day before cold symptoms develop and remain contagious for about five to seven days." / "If you have the flu, you'll be contagious one day before developing symptoms and up to five to seven days after becoming ill." = One cold would take up all your sick days. By following your recommendation, someone falling sick more than once a year would have to quit their job.
  - DelightOne 7y ago
    Doesn't sound nice true. How do you transmit the flu to others without symptoms like sneezing/running nose?
    - chmod775 7y ago
      There exists a metric ton of other possible vectors for viruses to spread. It depends on the virus though. We don't yet conclusively know what vectors this virus can use to spread.

endemic 7y ago

> Also, there is a culture of not staying home when you're sick That's been my experience in the US, but in Japan? While briefly living there, I was shocked when my 22 year old neighbor stayed home because of a common cold.

jcriddle4 7y ago
I suspect it is more company/occupation specific. High paying white collar workers are probably much more likely to be able to stay home. Low pay workers, likely have much less vacation benefits and all and must come to work. Me specifically I have over enough PTO with no prior vacation commitments that a week off it not a problem.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  "High paying white collar workers" or even mediocre paid white collar workers are more likely to be working from home when sick. I have never had a job where I felt comfortable and able to take a sick day because I had "just" a cold, but since I've had an office job where working from home was allowed, I would also not feel comfortable coming into the office sick.

Razengan 7y ago

Masks are also worn for privacy and social anxiety. They can be fashionable [0]. And, it's sad to even have to mention this, but as an added bonus for the dystopia we seem to be headed into, they also hinder mass surveillance. Apparently there are/were attempts to ban masks during the unrest in Hong Kong. I recall this video [1] where people say they like how masks keep their faces warm, and they can feel free to sing to a song in public without feeling embarrassed. :) [0] https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=face+mask+fashion https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=face+mask+fashion [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW67Hd7RJgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW67Hd7RJgQ

wendyshu 7y ago
Social anxiety? They'd make communication more difficult not less.
- Razengan 7y ago
  Social anxiety manifests differently for different people. Some prefer to stay as "invisible" as possible, some don't like other people focusing on their face.

fspeech 7y ago

Unfortunately Wuhan experience showed that home isolation doesn't work. Caretakers will get infected. People also have needs that will make them or their caretakers go outside.

irjustin 7y ago
How did you reach the conclusion that home isolation doesn't work? Seems quite hyperbolic. It works and is part of the whole solution. A clear downside is caretakers/food delivery can get infected, but it is much harder to spread. The data shows that isolation is helping [1], China minus the outside world shows diminishing new cases in China. [1] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/
- fspeech 7y ago
  That is the point: China does not do home isolation. Wuhan had no choice but to try that in the beginning and it did not work. Things only started to improve when Wuhan were able to collect patients into quarantine sites.
  - irjustin 7y ago
    Ebola is closer to what you're describing. 2-21 days to show symptoms and you're only contagious after symptoms arise. Isolation 100% works. Corona is closer the flu/common-cold in terms of transmission. Quarantining patients is too late. The viral point is the 14-21 day incubation period where patients aren't showing symptoms yet very able to spread the disease, which is the whole reason why it's so scary and affecting the world markets. If Wuhan removed home isolation and everyone was allowed to go back to the old way of life, the virus would spread again. I'm not sure how you can argue against home isolation. I haven't been convinced of what you claim; that it isn't helping.
    - fspeech 7y ago
      Incubation is typically 4 to 7 days. Home isolation depends on compliance. Patients and their families will be hard pressed to comply if their medical and other needs can not be met.

japan-covid 7y ago

I'm surprised this a top comment on such a popular submission. To give this reply a little perspective, I'm from Taiwan and currently live in Vancouver. It is very disingenuous to conclude what's happening in Japan is because of (the mask, and sick leave) culture. It is what makes me nervous about North America's preparedness. I'm assuming you are from NA since US CDC keeps telling the public that masks aren't effective. IMO they're just saying that to not cause a panic of people grabbing masks. Plus, they have a point. Most North Americans just aren't used to wearing one, so might make the wearers touch their faces even more. This is not true in a lot of Asian countries. The general public in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and Hong Kong are all very accustomed to people wearing masks in public places, especially on mass transit systems. The density is just night and day compared to most of North America except maybe New York. Some wear it to stop the spread of disease, other comments have mentioned being a substitute for make-up, or also common: as a face shield when riding bicycles or scooters in the winter (much like a ski mask). Anyways, the point is that it is extremely common place. If you've worn it a couple of times you won't keep touching it. > One of the problems is that they put too much confidence in face masks. The mask is just the first line of defense. No one thinks masks are the be-all and end-all solution. After the outbreak in Iran, I'm seeing more and more Middle Easterners wear masks on the street. I'll bet you money when it starts spreading locally in North American communities you are going to see more people wear masks no matter their skin color or 'culture' (if they can get any). Check out the Italians wearing masks. [1] > Most of these masks are just toys and not air tight at all. Plenty of others corrected you on this so I won't go into it much. Basically, it's to block droplets (from leaving you and attached to other people and places like handles on buses etc.) It's not filtration. It also acts as a barrier if you are in close contact to someone who is sick. > Also, there is a culture of not staying home when you're sick. This annoys me the most. Us working in the technology sector have generous sick day policies, or even better remote work policies. But most people don't. There are plenty of people of all ages and colors and backgrounds that cough openly during my morning commute. This culture HAS to change but it's definitely not limited just Asia, let alone Japan. 1. https://www.gazettenet.com/Italy-rushes-to-contain-Europe-s-first-major-virus-outbreak-32880840 https://www.gazettenet.com/Italy-rushes-to-contain-Europe-s-...

29athrowaway 7y ago

What's worse is that they take their masks off to sneeze so they can continue using the same mask.