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Freedom isn't free. I think people have just ought to realize that. People have this idea that free countries are more efficient, which is probably true in the

Freedom isn't free. I think people have just ought to realize that. People have this idea that free countries are more efficient, which is probably true in the long run, but it's a cop-out to just call it a day there. Once I was in Belarus. It's a heavily authoritarian country, make no mistake. When they had protests against their rigged elections, they traced the phones of everyone who went, then brought them in for questioning and asked them what they were doing there. The president later said: "We have rigged the latest election. 93.5 per cent have voted for Lukashenko. But they say it is not a European outcome. We have made it 86 per cent." But it does work. I was at a restaurant there. Some girls are chatting, and they walk away to go get something, and just leave their bags there unattended. Why? Because it's an authoritarian country - people aren't going to steal stuff there. This was in the capital of one of the poorest countries in Europe, but it was still one of the safest places I've ever been. EDIT: I don't mean to praise authoritarian countries, on the contrary. We should support human rights even if it is less efficient, because the object of governance is not to strip people of their freedoms for pennies on the dollar.

Mirioron 7y ago
>But it does work. I was at a restaurant there. Some girls are chatting, and they walk away to go get something, and just leave their bags there unattended. Why? Because it's an authoritarian country - people aren't going to steal stuff there. Chances are high that you could do the same in most European countries. Just like in the Soviet Union, thieves exist in Belarus. People's perception might be that they're safer, but that doesn't mean they actually are. Just like during Soviet times, people felt safer, but crime still happened. It just wasn't talked about, because it makes the state look bad.
- excalibur 7y ago
  I don't recommend leaving bags unattended in public anywhere these days, they're likely to call in the bomb squad.
  - wiz21c 7y ago
    rotfl ! spot on ! (or they may check it for whatever trending corona virus)
- A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
  Just to add to your point. In old time mafia controlled villages in the old country, anecdotally you did not have to lock your car, but few would argue that an average person in that village was 'safe'. It almost reminds me of some my parents' peers yearning for the good ole days of communism, cuz riffraffs would not dare to talk back to a cop. edit: It is hard to argue with that kind of sentiment. It is technically right.
- btilly 7y ago
  Just like during Soviet times, people felt safer, but crime still happened. It just wasn't talked about, because it makes the state look bad. Poor example. The anarchy that attended the collapse of the Soviet system brought about a dramatic increase in crime. And while reported petty theft was arguably a reporting problem, the dramatic rise in homicides was not. For the record my mother-in-law lived in St Petersburg at the time. And her anecdotal reports were that crime that she and friends experienced rose dramatically.
hippich 7y ago
I actually lived in Belarus for most of my life. I would never leave a bag in a restaurant unless I have a clear view of it while ordering something. (I would not do it here in the USA as well). Also, even in the capital of Belarus, some neighborhoods are still quite dangerous to walk around at night.
d1zzy 7y ago
You better not have left your stuff unattended in authoritarian communist Romania... I get what you're implying but authoritarian regime doesn't always imply harsh and effective enforcement of the law for petty crimes. Sometimes it does but the two aren't necessarily correlated although one probably requires the other.
KorematsuFred 7y ago
> This was in the capital of one of the poorest countries in Europe, but it was still one of the safest places I've ever been. Obviously if you put all people in jail they will be very safe there. But then you have less people working and producing more useful stuff than rotting in jail. The best example I give of this trade off between freedom and safety is that of women in saudi arabia. They have the least amount of sexual violence in the world.
- lastres0rt 7y ago
  Well of course they do; it's not rape there as long as you marry the 12-year-old first.
  - labawi 7y ago
    It can suffice to marry the girl after rape (not sure of country and specifics).
  - btilly 7y ago
    In Sharia law, you need 4 witnesses to prove fornication. Bringing a charge without the evidence subjects the one who brought it to 80 lashes. Whether or not this applies to rape is a question of debate. However in Pakistan it certainly has been interpreted to so apply. Which means that it is very hard for a woman to prove that she was raped. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudud#Requirements_for_conviction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudud#Requirements_for_convict... for verification.
- dao- 7y ago
  > > This was in the capital of one of the poorest countries in Europe, but it was still one of the safest places I've ever been. > Obviously if you put all people in jail they will be very safe there. But then you have less people working and producing more useful stuff than rotting in jail. Friendly reminder that the US has the highest incarceration rate of all countries. > The best example I give of this trade off between freedom and safety is that of women in saudi arabia. They have the least amount of sexual violence in the world. Is this according to their official statistics? How do they know they're accurate and comparable? For instance, is rape within marriage considered a crime and regularly prosecuted there?
SkyBelow 7y ago
Would Japan qualify as authoritarian? Yet it is safe to leave things out without watching them, except for umbrellas. There are even places in the US where it is safe enough. I doubt these places are more authoritarian but instead allow such social safety because of other reasons. Authoritarianism can, to some extent, replace those reasons if they are lost, but it replaces them with some sort of mutated social structure that I find has far more problems that the original once you look past the surface.
- dtech 7y ago
  > Yet it is safe to leave things out without watching them, except for umbrellas. People have no qualms about stealing umbrellas?
  - vanniv 7y ago
    Umbrellas frequently get stolen via the self-justification of "I need it, I'll just borrow it" followed by laziness about returning.
- vanniv 7y ago
  In most of the US, you can safely leave most things without watching them without much risk of theft. I mean, if you leave something that's a strong temptation (like a big pile of cash) it'll eventually disappear. Yeah, if you go in to one of the inner cities, your stuff will get stolen, but otherwise, generally nah.
c22 7y ago
One time I was at a coffee shop in Chicago and I saw a woman leave her laptop unattended while she went to the bathroom with no ill effects.

Mirioron 7y ago

>But it does work. I was at a restaurant there. Some girls are chatting, and they walk away to go get something, and just leave their bags there unattended. Why? Because it's an authoritarian country - people aren't going to steal stuff there. Chances are high that you could do the same in most European countries. Just like in the Soviet Union, thieves exist in Belarus. People's perception might be that they're safer, but that doesn't mean they actually are. Just like during Soviet times, people felt safer, but crime still happened. It just wasn't talked about, because it makes the state look bad.

excalibur 7y ago
I don't recommend leaving bags unattended in public anywhere these days, they're likely to call in the bomb squad.
- wiz21c 7y ago
  rotfl ! spot on ! (or they may check it for whatever trending corona virus)
A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
Just to add to your point. In old time mafia controlled villages in the old country, anecdotally you did not have to lock your car, but few would argue that an average person in that village was 'safe'. It almost reminds me of some my parents' peers yearning for the good ole days of communism, cuz riffraffs would not dare to talk back to a cop. edit: It is hard to argue with that kind of sentiment. It is technically right.
btilly 7y ago
Just like during Soviet times, people felt safer, but crime still happened. It just wasn't talked about, because it makes the state look bad. Poor example. The anarchy that attended the collapse of the Soviet system brought about a dramatic increase in crime. And while reported petty theft was arguably a reporting problem, the dramatic rise in homicides was not. For the record my mother-in-law lived in St Petersburg at the time. And her anecdotal reports were that crime that she and friends experienced rose dramatically.

hippich 7y ago

I actually lived in Belarus for most of my life. I would never leave a bag in a restaurant unless I have a clear view of it while ordering something. (I would not do it here in the USA as well). Also, even in the capital of Belarus, some neighborhoods are still quite dangerous to walk around at night.

d1zzy 7y ago

You better not have left your stuff unattended in authoritarian communist Romania... I get what you're implying but authoritarian regime doesn't always imply harsh and effective enforcement of the law for petty crimes. Sometimes it does but the two aren't necessarily correlated although one probably requires the other.

KorematsuFred 7y ago

> This was in the capital of one of the poorest countries in Europe, but it was still one of the safest places I've ever been. Obviously if you put all people in jail they will be very safe there. But then you have less people working and producing more useful stuff than rotting in jail. The best example I give of this trade off between freedom and safety is that of women in saudi arabia. They have the least amount of sexual violence in the world.

lastres0rt 7y ago
Well of course they do; it's not rape there as long as you marry the 12-year-old first.
- labawi 7y ago
  It can suffice to marry the girl after rape (not sure of country and specifics).
- btilly 7y ago
  In Sharia law, you need 4 witnesses to prove fornication. Bringing a charge without the evidence subjects the one who brought it to 80 lashes. Whether or not this applies to rape is a question of debate. However in Pakistan it certainly has been interpreted to so apply. Which means that it is very hard for a woman to prove that she was raped. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudud#Requirements_for_conviction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudud#Requirements_for_convict... for verification.
dao- 7y ago
> > This was in the capital of one of the poorest countries in Europe, but it was still one of the safest places I've ever been. > Obviously if you put all people in jail they will be very safe there. But then you have less people working and producing more useful stuff than rotting in jail. Friendly reminder that the US has the highest incarceration rate of all countries. > The best example I give of this trade off between freedom and safety is that of women in saudi arabia. They have the least amount of sexual violence in the world. Is this according to their official statistics? How do they know they're accurate and comparable? For instance, is rape within marriage considered a crime and regularly prosecuted there?

SkyBelow 7y ago

Would Japan qualify as authoritarian? Yet it is safe to leave things out without watching them, except for umbrellas. There are even places in the US where it is safe enough. I doubt these places are more authoritarian but instead allow such social safety because of other reasons. Authoritarianism can, to some extent, replace those reasons if they are lost, but it replaces them with some sort of mutated social structure that I find has far more problems that the original once you look past the surface.

dtech 7y ago
> Yet it is safe to leave things out without watching them, except for umbrellas. People have no qualms about stealing umbrellas?
- vanniv 7y ago
  Umbrellas frequently get stolen via the self-justification of "I need it, I'll just borrow it" followed by laziness about returning.
vanniv 7y ago
In most of the US, you can safely leave most things without watching them without much risk of theft. I mean, if you leave something that's a strong temptation (like a big pile of cash) it'll eventually disappear. Yeah, if you go in to one of the inner cities, your stuff will get stolen, but otherwise, generally nah.

c22 7y ago

One time I was at a coffee shop in Chicago and I saw a woman leave her laptop unattended while she went to the bathroom with no ill effects.