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Watching old movies from 60s/70s sometimes have scenes where the characters are worried about calls being recorded or otherwise having no privacy. The typical

Watching old movies from 60s/70s sometimes have scenes where the characters are worried about calls being recorded or otherwise having no privacy. The typical response is “What is this, Russia?” or something similar. Privacy is really important. I will always error on the side of privacy even if that means not everyone bad is caught.

hitpointdrew 7y ago
> I will always error on the side of privacy even if that means not everyone bad is caught. Reminds me of something my dad always told me, "I'd rather see 10 guilty people walk free, than have 1 innocent person in jail."
- BubRoss 7y ago
  I'm not a historian, but I don't think your dad came up with that first...
  - PopeRigby 7y ago
    They never said he did. Just that he said it.
- TooKool4This 7y ago
  Blackstone’s ratio is where that principle originally comes from, at least in modern law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio
heartbeats 7y ago
Freedom isn't free. I think people have just ought to realize that. People have this idea that free countries are more efficient, which is probably true in the long run, but it's a cop-out to just call it a day there. Once I was in Belarus. It's a heavily authoritarian country, make no mistake. When they had protests against their rigged elections, they traced the phones of everyone who went, then brought them in for questioning and asked them what they were doing there. The president later said: "We have rigged the latest election. 93.5 per cent have voted for Lukashenko. But they say it is not a European outcome. We have made it 86 per cent." But it does work. I was at a restaurant there. Some girls are chatting, and they walk away to go get something, and just leave their bags there unattended. Why? Because it's an authoritarian country - people aren't going to steal stuff there. This was in the capital of one of the poorest countries in Europe, but it was still one of the safest places I've ever been. EDIT: I don't mean to praise authoritarian countries, on the contrary. We should support human rights even if it is less efficient, because the object of governance is not to strip people of their freedoms for pennies on the dollar.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  >But it does work. I was at a restaurant there. Some girls are chatting, and they walk away to go get something, and just leave their bags there unattended. Why? Because it's an authoritarian country - people aren't going to steal stuff there. Chances are high that you could do the same in most European countries. Just like in the Soviet Union, thieves exist in Belarus. People's perception might be that they're safer, but that doesn't mean they actually are. Just like during Soviet times, people felt safer, but crime still happened. It just wasn't talked about, because it makes the state look bad.
  - excalibur 7y ago
    I don't recommend leaving bags unattended in public anywhere these days, they're likely to call in the bomb squad.
    - wiz21c 7y ago
      rotfl ! spot on ! (or they may check it for whatever trending corona virus)
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
    Just to add to your point. In old time mafia controlled villages in the old country, anecdotally you did not have to lock your car, but few would argue that an average person in that village was 'safe'. It almost reminds me of some my parents' peers yearning for the good ole days of communism, cuz riffraffs would not dare to talk back to a cop. edit: It is hard to argue with that kind of sentiment. It is technically right.
  - btilly 7y ago
    Just like during Soviet times, people felt safer, but crime still happened. It just wasn't talked about, because it makes the state look bad. Poor example. The anarchy that attended the collapse of the Soviet system brought about a dramatic increase in crime. And while reported petty theft was arguably a reporting problem, the dramatic rise in homicides was not. For the record my mother-in-law lived in St Petersburg at the time. And her anecdotal reports were that crime that she and friends experienced rose dramatically.
anonsivalley652 7y ago
The Conversation (1974) Three Days of the Condor (1975) Marathon Man (1976) Sneakers perhaps. Anyhow, I think you're missing the context of what happened in the 60's and 70's that stoked paranoia in the culture and in fiction. 1. CCTIFBI Only because some morally-flexible activists broke into an FBI field office did they uncover COINTELPRO and quoting Chomksy "40% [of FBI work activities] were devoted to political surveillance and the like" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/07/fbi-office-break-in-1971-come-forward-documents https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/07/fbi-office-bre... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Commission_to_Investigate_the_FBI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Commission_to_Inve... Furthermore, in modern times, there is: - warrantless mass surveillance (NSA) - license plate readers (LPRs) - cellphone tower/position tracking - Ring and other IoT devices recording to cloud providers evidence of technical crimes. All it takes is law-enforcement getting access for something else and digging around with automated tools in data to round up bodies to prosecute. For example, a small child escaping from a bath without clothes in front of an always-recording security webcam is considered child pornography. - No-name webcams and other IoT being hacked or manufacturing backdoored to be used for spying, malware injection, packet sniffing and who knows what else. - As revealed by Snowden, various secret watch lists containing the names of over 2 million Americans.

hitpointdrew 7y ago

> I will always error on the side of privacy even if that means not everyone bad is caught. Reminds me of something my dad always told me, "I'd rather see 10 guilty people walk free, than have 1 innocent person in jail."

BubRoss 7y ago
I'm not a historian, but I don't think your dad came up with that first...
- PopeRigby 7y ago
  They never said he did. Just that he said it.
TooKool4This 7y ago
Blackstone’s ratio is where that principle originally comes from, at least in modern law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio

heartbeats 7y ago

Freedom isn't free. I think people have just ought to realize that. People have this idea that free countries are more efficient, which is probably true in the long run, but it's a cop-out to just call it a day there. Once I was in Belarus. It's a heavily authoritarian country, make no mistake. When they had protests against their rigged elections, they traced the phones of everyone who went, then brought them in for questioning and asked them what they were doing there. The president later said: "We have rigged the latest election. 93.5 per cent have voted for Lukashenko. But they say it is not a European outcome. We have made it 86 per cent." But it does work. I was at a restaurant there. Some girls are chatting, and they walk away to go get something, and just leave their bags there unattended. Why? Because it's an authoritarian country - people aren't going to steal stuff there. This was in the capital of one of the poorest countries in Europe, but it was still one of the safest places I've ever been. EDIT: I don't mean to praise authoritarian countries, on the contrary. We should support human rights even if it is less efficient, because the object of governance is not to strip people of their freedoms for pennies on the dollar.

Mirioron 7y ago
>But it does work. I was at a restaurant there. Some girls are chatting, and they walk away to go get something, and just leave their bags there unattended. Why? Because it's an authoritarian country - people aren't going to steal stuff there. Chances are high that you could do the same in most European countries. Just like in the Soviet Union, thieves exist in Belarus. People's perception might be that they're safer, but that doesn't mean they actually are. Just like during Soviet times, people felt safer, but crime still happened. It just wasn't talked about, because it makes the state look bad.
- excalibur 7y ago
  I don't recommend leaving bags unattended in public anywhere these days, they're likely to call in the bomb squad.
  - wiz21c 7y ago
    rotfl ! spot on ! (or they may check it for whatever trending corona virus)
- A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
  Just to add to your point. In old time mafia controlled villages in the old country, anecdotally you did not have to lock your car, but few would argue that an average person in that village was 'safe'. It almost reminds me of some my parents' peers yearning for the good ole days of communism, cuz riffraffs would not dare to talk back to a cop. edit: It is hard to argue with that kind of sentiment. It is technically right.
- btilly 7y ago
  Just like during Soviet times, people felt safer, but crime still happened. It just wasn't talked about, because it makes the state look bad. Poor example. The anarchy that attended the collapse of the Soviet system brought about a dramatic increase in crime. And while reported petty theft was arguably a reporting problem, the dramatic rise in homicides was not. For the record my mother-in-law lived in St Petersburg at the time. And her anecdotal reports were that crime that she and friends experienced rose dramatically.

anonsivalley652 7y ago

The Conversation (1974) Three Days of the Condor (1975) Marathon Man (1976) Sneakers perhaps. Anyhow, I think you're missing the context of what happened in the 60's and 70's that stoked paranoia in the culture and in fiction. 1. CCTIFBI Only because some morally-flexible activists broke into an FBI field office did they uncover COINTELPRO and quoting Chomksy "40% [of FBI work activities] were devoted to political surveillance and the like" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/07/fbi-office-break-in-1971-come-forward-documents https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/07/fbi-office-bre... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Commission_to_Investigate_the_FBI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Commission_to_Inve... Furthermore, in modern times, there is: - warrantless mass surveillance (NSA) - license plate readers (LPRs) - cellphone tower/position tracking - Ring and other IoT devices recording to cloud providers evidence of technical crimes. All it takes is law-enforcement getting access for something else and digging around with automated tools in data to round up bodies to prosecute. For example, a small child escaping from a bath without clothes in front of an always-recording security webcam is considered child pornography. - No-name webcams and other IoT being hacked or manufacturing backdoored to be used for spying, malware injection, packet sniffing and who knows what else. - As revealed by Snowden, various secret watch lists containing the names of over 2 million Americans.