4 ms·

This is always going to happen when you go about doing what he did in such a flamboyant way. I agree that he was by no means an angel, but I also see the reaso

This is always going to happen when you go about doing what he did in such a flamboyant way. I agree that he was by no means an angel, but I also see the reasons why the governments want to set an example. People have this idea that it's a terrible thing if their governments have secrets.. It's normal.. That doesn't justify this treatment of him. By any means, one would think he would be treated well in public. > Is Assange the victim of torture? It looks as though he's being made an example of. If thats right or wrong is anyones guess, but it doesn't make anyone confortable.

tokamak-teapot 7y ago
Yes he's being made an example of. He brazenly broke the (unwritten) rules and this is an educational beatdown[1]. It will end badly for Assange, because two of the "three cases where the EBD may be dangerous" (see linked article) apply. Whether Assange is 'in the right' or not, #1 will still apply to him. [1] https://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2013/03/cofv10-educational-beatdown.html https://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2013/03/cofv10-education...
- lolc 7y ago
  That was an interesting read. Let's make it clear to the "educational beatdown" people that we don't agree!
  - tokamak-teapot 7y ago
    Absolutely! Pressure can be applied. I’m not sure what might actually work in the end but a show of public opinion being against the ‘beat down’ could work. Unfortunately the public opinion has been primed to agree with it - or at least turn away for fear of being seen to defend a ‘rapist’.
AllegedAlec 7y ago
> If thats right or wrong is anyones guess You're fucking joking right? Something about "cruel and unusual punishment", which is present in both English and American law. Furthermore, there's this little document called the 'Universal Declaration of Human Rights', which has stuff to say on this matter too, and has been signed by both the US and England.
- bilekas 7y ago
  I'm not joking, what Assange did was at best 'cunty'. He could have been more careful releasing the information but he wasnt. He's being made an example of, its clear as day. My 'if its right or wrong' depends on your side of the argument, so no. I'm not joking. > "cruel and unusual punishment" Couldn't agree with you more, he should not be made to suffer needlessly.. He's not in a labor camp, he's not being whipped. He knew he was going to be made an example of. This is the result. I'm not saying its nice, but it's not even punishment yet. He will receive much worse later I'm sure.
  - AllegedAlec 7y ago
    > I'm not joking, what Assange did was at best 'cunty'. Releasing evidence of governments doing torturing, extra-judicial killings of journalists and children,which violate the Geneva Convention, as well as a slew of other materials isn't 'cunty'. > He could have been more careful releasing the information but he wasnt. In what way was he not careful? > My 'if its right or wrong' depends on your side of the argument, so no. I'm not joking. That's weird, because you are a fucking clown. > Couldn't agree with you more, he should not be made to suffer needlessly.. He's not in a labor camp, he's not being whipped. He knew he was going to be made an example of. This is the result. I'm not saying its nice, but it's not even punishment yet. He will receive much worse later I'm sure. Look up the definition of cruel and unusual punishment.
    - bilekas 7y ago
      > Releasing evidence of governments doing torturing, extra-judicial killings of journalists and children,which violate the Geneva Convention, as well as a slew of other materials isn't 'cunty'. He released evidence rightly so but compromising a lot of sources, methods and other info. It could have been released better. The info should have been released, my argument is not in defence of the original actions. > That's weird, because you are a fucking clown. Okay
      - AllegedAlec 7y ago
celticninja 7y ago
It's wrong. Just to clarify that for you. It's not a guess.
- bilekas 7y ago
  I'm not sure how you can say that with such confidence. I am of the same opinion as you, but I do know why sometimes the people in positions of sensitive information might want to set an example to not let it happen again so easily.
  - raxxorrax 7y ago
    If anyone find compromising information about war crimes, everyone should leak the shit out of it. Please excuse the profanity. It isn't just your duty, it is also the right thing to do. So better no make that your defense.
    - bilekas 7y ago
      Yes, but there are proper ways to whistle-blow.
      - raxxorrax 7y ago
        Many precedents would suggest otherwise.
henearkr 7y ago
That "it's normal" that governments have secrets is something that should be of the past. It goes hand-in-hand with the existence of conflicts and international tensions. Which I also think should be of the past, for the sake of it. Then there is the way to manage lots of citizens while protecting their privacy, and for that we already have a lot of anonymization techs, using hashs, and sym or asym ciphers, etc... that's just a matter of now doing it instead of just knowing how we can do it...
- bilekas 7y ago
  > That "it's normal" that governments have secrets is something that should be of the past. The world doesn't work that way. It probably wont for a long time so grow up. > Which I also think should be of the past, for the sake of it. Then there is the way to manage same as above, I agree with you, but reality is what it is. > that's just a matter of now doing it instead of just knowing how we can do it... Yup again agree with you. But the responsibility is on you. I really don't know why people expect it from someone else, even the government.
  - henearkr 7y ago
    Just because the law requires us to give our data to the government. And the government has all legal means to collect the data in the first place.
    - bilekas 7y ago
      > Just because the law requires us to give our data to the government Not sure where you live but if you're giving too much information over by law, you should leave. Giving your address, Name, maybe Citizenship and birthday to your government is not as crazy as it sounds.
      - henearkr 7y ago
        You are forgetting, for example, your income data, your marital status, your penal history, your real estate, and not to mention any data gathered while doing some police investigation even if just brushing past your shoulder. Also, your health history.

tokamak-teapot 7y ago

Yes he's being made an example of. He brazenly broke the (unwritten) rules and this is an educational beatdown[1]. It will end badly for Assange, because two of the "three cases where the EBD may be dangerous" (see linked article) apply. Whether Assange is 'in the right' or not, #1 will still apply to him. [1] https://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2013/03/cofv10-educational-beatdown.html https://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2013/03/cofv10-education...

lolc 7y ago
That was an interesting read. Let's make it clear to the "educational beatdown" people that we don't agree!
- tokamak-teapot 7y ago
  Absolutely! Pressure can be applied. I’m not sure what might actually work in the end but a show of public opinion being against the ‘beat down’ could work. Unfortunately the public opinion has been primed to agree with it - or at least turn away for fear of being seen to defend a ‘rapist’.

AllegedAlec 7y ago

> If thats right or wrong is anyones guess You're fucking joking right? Something about "cruel and unusual punishment", which is present in both English and American law. Furthermore, there's this little document called the 'Universal Declaration of Human Rights', which has stuff to say on this matter too, and has been signed by both the US and England.

bilekas 7y ago
I'm not joking, what Assange did was at best 'cunty'. He could have been more careful releasing the information but he wasnt. He's being made an example of, its clear as day. My 'if its right or wrong' depends on your side of the argument, so no. I'm not joking. > "cruel and unusual punishment" Couldn't agree with you more, he should not be made to suffer needlessly.. He's not in a labor camp, he's not being whipped. He knew he was going to be made an example of. This is the result. I'm not saying its nice, but it's not even punishment yet. He will receive much worse later I'm sure.
- AllegedAlec 7y ago
  > I'm not joking, what Assange did was at best 'cunty'. Releasing evidence of governments doing torturing, extra-judicial killings of journalists and children,which violate the Geneva Convention, as well as a slew of other materials isn't 'cunty'. > He could have been more careful releasing the information but he wasnt. In what way was he not careful? > My 'if its right or wrong' depends on your side of the argument, so no. I'm not joking. That's weird, because you are a fucking clown. > Couldn't agree with you more, he should not be made to suffer needlessly.. He's not in a labor camp, he's not being whipped. He knew he was going to be made an example of. This is the result. I'm not saying its nice, but it's not even punishment yet. He will receive much worse later I'm sure. Look up the definition of cruel and unusual punishment.
  - bilekas 7y ago
    > Releasing evidence of governments doing torturing, extra-judicial killings of journalists and children,which violate the Geneva Convention, as well as a slew of other materials isn't 'cunty'. He released evidence rightly so but compromising a lot of sources, methods and other info. It could have been released better. The info should have been released, my argument is not in defence of the original actions. > That's weird, because you are a fucking clown. Okay
    - AllegedAlec 7y ago

celticninja 7y ago

It's wrong. Just to clarify that for you. It's not a guess.

bilekas 7y ago
I'm not sure how you can say that with such confidence. I am of the same opinion as you, but I do know why sometimes the people in positions of sensitive information might want to set an example to not let it happen again so easily.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  If anyone find compromising information about war crimes, everyone should leak the shit out of it. Please excuse the profanity. It isn't just your duty, it is also the right thing to do. So better no make that your defense.
  - bilekas 7y ago
    Yes, but there are proper ways to whistle-blow.
    - raxxorrax 7y ago
      Many precedents would suggest otherwise.

henearkr 7y ago

That "it's normal" that governments have secrets is something that should be of the past. It goes hand-in-hand with the existence of conflicts and international tensions. Which I also think should be of the past, for the sake of it. Then there is the way to manage lots of citizens while protecting their privacy, and for that we already have a lot of anonymization techs, using hashs, and sym or asym ciphers, etc... that's just a matter of now doing it instead of just knowing how we can do it...

bilekas 7y ago
> That "it's normal" that governments have secrets is something that should be of the past. The world doesn't work that way. It probably wont for a long time so grow up. > Which I also think should be of the past, for the sake of it. Then there is the way to manage same as above, I agree with you, but reality is what it is. > that's just a matter of now doing it instead of just knowing how we can do it... Yup again agree with you. But the responsibility is on you. I really don't know why people expect it from someone else, even the government.
- henearkr 7y ago
  Just because the law requires us to give our data to the government. And the government has all legal means to collect the data in the first place.
  - bilekas 7y ago
    > Just because the law requires us to give our data to the government Not sure where you live but if you're giving too much information over by law, you should leave. Giving your address, Name, maybe Citizenship and birthday to your government is not as crazy as it sounds.
    - henearkr 7y ago
      You are forgetting, for example, your income data, your marital status, your penal history, your real estate, and not to mention any data gathered while doing some police investigation even if just brushing past your shoulder. Also, your health history.