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Absolutely. And before anyone claims that any such action would inevitably favour the well-off at the expense of the poor, let me point out that schemes like ca

Absolutely. And before anyone claims that any such action would inevitably favour the well-off at the expense of the poor, let me point out that schemes like carbon fee and dividend exist that implement a carbon tax in a non-regressive way by returning the collected tax revenue to the population in form of a dividend paid equally to everyone. That way, people with carbon-intensive lifestyles (eg, lots of air travel), who tend to be well-off, pay more, and people who can't afford overseas vacations every year will more likely than not pay less carbon tax than the dividend they receive. This incentivises low individual carbon emissions without disproportionately affecting less well-off people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fee_and_dividend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fee_and_dividend

zdragnar 7y ago
If you think that pricing carbon externalities into all goods now and offering a dividend later (yearly? Quarterly? Monthly?) will not be regressive, ask anyone living paycheck to paycheck how they feel about it. It might balance out in the big scheme of things, but it isn't going to be doing any favors to people who are already precariously balanced and lack the savings to make personal adjustments. You can be sure there will be mass protests if the price of gas, food, and electricity double (esp food in northern climates where transportation and refrigeration add a lot to produce and frozen goods as well as meats).
- WhompingWindows 7y ago
  There won't be mass protests, there will be vocal minority protests like we saw in France. For better or worse, vocal minorities can do a lot of damage to the policies we need.
- ip26 7y ago
  Fwiw climate change itself is heavily regressive. Pick your poison.
- nradov 7y ago
  For people living paycheck to paycheck that can be handled through adjustments to tax withholding. So less money would be withheld from each paycheck. We already handle numerous other taxes and tax credits / deductions the same way. Rapid price inflation for staple goods will likely cause civil unrest either way. The only way to make a carbon tax politically feasible will be to slowly phase it in over many years so that people have time to adjust.
- zamfi 7y ago
  > pricing carbon externalities into all goods now and offering a dividend later Nothing prevents the dividend from being offered upfront. It would be trivial for most governments to finance this. Ask someone living paycheck to paycheck if they'd take $500 now in exchange for higher (but less than the $500 they get) costs on certain items. Most people living paycheck-to-paycheck are not the biggest consumers.
  - zdragnar 7y ago
    Certain items? everything is influenced by petroleum, whether transportation, manufacturing or fertilization. Our clothes are made from it. Machines are powered and lubricated by it. Food is cooled and packaged with it. I wouldn't be too hopeful that the cost of anything wouldn't be affected, unless those goods have externality costs excluded, in which case you aren't really pricing in externalities, you're just running another UBI scheme.
    - zamfi 7y ago
      Prices fluctuate all the time. How many tons of CO2 are consumed by the machine that spins yarn? Sure there’s an added cost, but of pennies — this strikes me as a weak counter argument. At a nominal price of $20/ton, a few things will go way up in price, but almost everything else will see at best a blip, with an added incentive to the producers to reduce the carbon content because that matters at industrial scale (company saves $3m over 30m units by switching to a non-petroleum glue whatever) not to an individual consumer (who would see a cost increase of 10¢).
- nothrabannosir 7y ago
  Canada has a carbon tax and an end of year rebate. They have been introducing it step by step, it’s per province so numbers are hard to summarise. The Wikipedia page has plenty of info for you to rest assured: it works. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_pricing_in_Canada https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_pricing_in_Canada They are a northern climate. There are no mass protests. Carbon emissions are going down. Instead of asking people how they feel about a theoretical scenario, you can look at reality.
  - technicalbard 7y ago
    It is still debatable whether carbon emissions are falling. Most of the country hasn't got enough data under a carbon tax, and oil and gas pricing has swung more significantly over the last 10 years than the carbon tax impact, and that didn't impact consumption very much.

zdragnar 7y ago

If you think that pricing carbon externalities into all goods now and offering a dividend later (yearly? Quarterly? Monthly?) will not be regressive, ask anyone living paycheck to paycheck how they feel about it. It might balance out in the big scheme of things, but it isn't going to be doing any favors to people who are already precariously balanced and lack the savings to make personal adjustments. You can be sure there will be mass protests if the price of gas, food, and electricity double (esp food in northern climates where transportation and refrigeration add a lot to produce and frozen goods as well as meats).

WhompingWindows 7y ago
There won't be mass protests, there will be vocal minority protests like we saw in France. For better or worse, vocal minorities can do a lot of damage to the policies we need.
ip26 7y ago
Fwiw climate change itself is heavily regressive. Pick your poison.
nradov 7y ago
For people living paycheck to paycheck that can be handled through adjustments to tax withholding. So less money would be withheld from each paycheck. We already handle numerous other taxes and tax credits / deductions the same way. Rapid price inflation for staple goods will likely cause civil unrest either way. The only way to make a carbon tax politically feasible will be to slowly phase it in over many years so that people have time to adjust.
zamfi 7y ago
> pricing carbon externalities into all goods now and offering a dividend later Nothing prevents the dividend from being offered upfront. It would be trivial for most governments to finance this. Ask someone living paycheck to paycheck if they'd take $500 now in exchange for higher (but less than the $500 they get) costs on certain items. Most people living paycheck-to-paycheck are not the biggest consumers.
- zdragnar 7y ago
  Certain items? everything is influenced by petroleum, whether transportation, manufacturing or fertilization. Our clothes are made from it. Machines are powered and lubricated by it. Food is cooled and packaged with it. I wouldn't be too hopeful that the cost of anything wouldn't be affected, unless those goods have externality costs excluded, in which case you aren't really pricing in externalities, you're just running another UBI scheme.
  - zamfi 7y ago
    Prices fluctuate all the time. How many tons of CO2 are consumed by the machine that spins yarn? Sure there’s an added cost, but of pennies — this strikes me as a weak counter argument. At a nominal price of $20/ton, a few things will go way up in price, but almost everything else will see at best a blip, with an added incentive to the producers to reduce the carbon content because that matters at industrial scale (company saves $3m over 30m units by switching to a non-petroleum glue whatever) not to an individual consumer (who would see a cost increase of 10¢).
nothrabannosir 7y ago
Canada has a carbon tax and an end of year rebate. They have been introducing it step by step, it’s per province so numbers are hard to summarise. The Wikipedia page has plenty of info for you to rest assured: it works. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_pricing_in_Canada https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_pricing_in_Canada They are a northern climate. There are no mass protests. Carbon emissions are going down. Instead of asking people how they feel about a theoretical scenario, you can look at reality.
- technicalbard 7y ago
  It is still debatable whether carbon emissions are falling. Most of the country hasn't got enough data under a carbon tax, and oil and gas pricing has swung more significantly over the last 10 years than the carbon tax impact, and that didn't impact consumption very much.