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>For what? Schools. Roads. Sewers. Water. Clean air. Power. Safety. Just to name a few. Nothing important really.

option 7y ago
WA has no income tax and their schools aren’t worse. Oregon has no sales tax and their schools aren’t worse. Are CA public schools by far the best in the nation? ( they are not) Edit: before you jump into the “other means funding” - I lived (and owned house) in WA and CA and the overall tax burden is MUCH higher in CA
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bun_at_work 7y ago
  Clearly those states fun schools through other means :).
- mc32 7y ago
  What’s more is MA has many if the best public schools and Romneycare (at 3% uninsured, that’s the lowest amongst the 50 states) and its taxes aren’t higher than CA’s. CA somehow manages to waste a lot of money. SF has city budgets higher than some states and still says it needs more money.
  - jinushaun 7y ago
    I don’t think it’s necessarily waste. It’s cost of living. If city employees need to make 6 figures just to be able to afford living in the city, of courses taxes will be higher to compensate. High taxes with zero improvement in services.
- throwawaysea 7y ago
  This is correct. School funding has little correlation to performance because there is little accountability or performance measurement. Even where you might think higher salaries would result in better teachers, this does not happen in any timely fashion because union rules results in long tenure of incumbent instructors in most places.
  - SllX 7y ago
    Don’t forget that those same unions are a political powerhouse in terms of keeping California effectively a single party State, and so long as they remain a reliable means of winning elections, the legislature as it is currently composed has every incentive not to change this. Keep in mind public sector unions are ultimately paid by the taxpayer via a series of payments which originate from us, go through the State and school districts, eventually a teacher’s paycheck and then from their dues, into the unions who turnaround and support the elections and re-elections of their favored politicians.
- dcolkitt 7y ago
  Another datapoint. Adjusted for demographics Texas and Florida have the third and fourth best test scores in the country.[1] (California ranks at 46th). Unlike California, Florida is one of three states with universal pre-k. Florida has the lowest in-state tuition in the country.[2] This includes UF, ranked as the seventh-best public university, at an average of $6300.(UC Berkeley averages $14,000.) 39% of Florida college students pay zero tuition. Florida has the second highest quality roads in the union[3]. It's consumer electricity prices are nearly 50% lower than California.[4] Florida has no state income tax, relatively modest property taxes, and a 7% sales tax. Nor does it overextend itself fiscally to provide high-quality government services on a low tax base. It ranks second in the union for state fiscal health.[5]. (California, even in the midst of the greatest tech boom in history ranks 42nd.) [1] https://www.vox.com/2015/10/26/9617514/test-scores-naep-2013 https://www.vox.com/2015/10/26/9617514/test-scores-naep-2013 [2] https://www.valuepenguin.com/student-loans/average-cost-of-college#state https://www.valuepenguin.com/student-loans/average-cost-of-c... [3] https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/07/08/states-that-are-falling-apart/39644781/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/07/08/states-that-... [4] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ [5] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/fiscal-stability https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/fiscal-stab...
- searine 7y ago
  WA and Oregon are not comparable in terms of population or demographics. They have different needs which are met with different tax burdens. If you want the luxury of living in CA, then you need to pay your share.
infecto 7y ago
You joke surely? - I live in the Bay Area, we largely have some of the worst schools on average. Yes some areas are perfect but the majority you don't want your kid going to. - Roads? What roads? The roads that are over-congested? The roads that have potholes that are measured in feet deep? - Power, water, clean air? Surely some of that is covered in the fees I already pay for? I pay some of the highest water/sewer/electric rates in the country. - Safety? I have a statistically higher chance of getting mugged in the Bay Area then most other parts of the country. I have lived in Oakland and San Francisco for a decade. I never see police but have seen lots of crime. Again, I ask, what for? I already pay some of the highest tax rates here. My property tax is expensive, my income tax is high. I get very little back from the state. Why would I trust the state to mishandle even more money?
- anoonmoose 7y ago
  > Again, I ask, what for? You're paying high taxes because they can tax you that highly and you haven't moved away yet. When they increase them and you still don't move their take away will be that they can probably raise them even higher. You're the sucker here.
- secabeen 7y ago
  While your property tax is high, property taxes in CA are generally low. See Prop 13. Also, feet-deep pot-holes? So how many cars are bottoming out each week? California's tax burden is ~9%, and within 1% of the median: https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/ https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-bur...
  - infecto 7y ago
    The worst one I measured in my neighborhood was about 12 inches so I guess the majority are more in the 3-6inch ranch. Enough that its an issue. I live in one of the nicer parts of Oakland too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmCNMQ7TOgY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmCNMQ7TOgY You don't have to tell me about Prop 13, its a joke and I push to remove it as often as I can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmCNMQ7TOgY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmCNMQ7TOgY
cscurmudgeon 7y ago
And corruption. Just one example: http://sfappeal.com/2013/05/arrest-warrants-issued-for-sf-schools-employees-accused-of-15-million-corruption-scam/ http://sfappeal.com/2013/05/arrest-warrants-issued-for-sf-sc...

WA has no income tax and their schools aren’t worse. Oregon has no sales tax and their schools aren’t worse. Are CA public schools by far the best in the nation? ( they are not) Edit: before you jump into the “other means funding” - I lived (and owned house) in WA and CA and the overall tax burden is MUCH higher in CA

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
bun_at_work 7y ago
Clearly those states fun schools through other means :).
mc32 7y ago
What’s more is MA has many if the best public schools and Romneycare (at 3% uninsured, that’s the lowest amongst the 50 states) and its taxes aren’t higher than CA’s. CA somehow manages to waste a lot of money. SF has city budgets higher than some states and still says it needs more money.
- jinushaun 7y ago
  I don’t think it’s necessarily waste. It’s cost of living. If city employees need to make 6 figures just to be able to afford living in the city, of courses taxes will be higher to compensate. High taxes with zero improvement in services.
throwawaysea 7y ago
This is correct. School funding has little correlation to performance because there is little accountability or performance measurement. Even where you might think higher salaries would result in better teachers, this does not happen in any timely fashion because union rules results in long tenure of incumbent instructors in most places.
- SllX 7y ago
  Don’t forget that those same unions are a political powerhouse in terms of keeping California effectively a single party State, and so long as they remain a reliable means of winning elections, the legislature as it is currently composed has every incentive not to change this. Keep in mind public sector unions are ultimately paid by the taxpayer via a series of payments which originate from us, go through the State and school districts, eventually a teacher’s paycheck and then from their dues, into the unions who turnaround and support the elections and re-elections of their favored politicians.
dcolkitt 7y ago
Another datapoint. Adjusted for demographics Texas and Florida have the third and fourth best test scores in the country.[1] (California ranks at 46th). Unlike California, Florida is one of three states with universal pre-k. Florida has the lowest in-state tuition in the country.[2] This includes UF, ranked as the seventh-best public university, at an average of $6300.(UC Berkeley averages $14,000.) 39% of Florida college students pay zero tuition. Florida has the second highest quality roads in the union[3]. It's consumer electricity prices are nearly 50% lower than California.[4] Florida has no state income tax, relatively modest property taxes, and a 7% sales tax. Nor does it overextend itself fiscally to provide high-quality government services on a low tax base. It ranks second in the union for state fiscal health.[5]. (California, even in the midst of the greatest tech boom in history ranks 42nd.) [1] https://www.vox.com/2015/10/26/9617514/test-scores-naep-2013 https://www.vox.com/2015/10/26/9617514/test-scores-naep-2013 [2] https://www.valuepenguin.com/student-loans/average-cost-of-college#state https://www.valuepenguin.com/student-loans/average-cost-of-c... [3] https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/07/08/states-that-are-falling-apart/39644781/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/07/08/states-that-... [4] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ [5] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/fiscal-stability https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/fiscal-stab...
searine 7y ago
WA and Oregon are not comparable in terms of population or demographics. They have different needs which are met with different tax burdens. If you want the luxury of living in CA, then you need to pay your share.

infecto 7y ago

You joke surely? - I live in the Bay Area, we largely have some of the worst schools on average. Yes some areas are perfect but the majority you don't want your kid going to. - Roads? What roads? The roads that are over-congested? The roads that have potholes that are measured in feet deep? - Power, water, clean air? Surely some of that is covered in the fees I already pay for? I pay some of the highest water/sewer/electric rates in the country. - Safety? I have a statistically higher chance of getting mugged in the Bay Area then most other parts of the country. I have lived in Oakland and San Francisco for a decade. I never see police but have seen lots of crime. Again, I ask, what for? I already pay some of the highest tax rates here. My property tax is expensive, my income tax is high. I get very little back from the state. Why would I trust the state to mishandle even more money?

anoonmoose 7y ago
> Again, I ask, what for? You're paying high taxes because they can tax you that highly and you haven't moved away yet. When they increase them and you still don't move their take away will be that they can probably raise them even higher. You're the sucker here.
secabeen 7y ago
While your property tax is high, property taxes in CA are generally low. See Prop 13. Also, feet-deep pot-holes? So how many cars are bottoming out each week? California's tax burden is ~9%, and within 1% of the median: https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/ https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-bur...
- infecto 7y ago
  The worst one I measured in my neighborhood was about 12 inches so I guess the majority are more in the 3-6inch ranch. Enough that its an issue. I live in one of the nicer parts of Oakland too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmCNMQ7TOgY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmCNMQ7TOgY You don't have to tell me about Prop 13, its a joke and I push to remove it as often as I can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmCNMQ7TOgY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmCNMQ7TOgY

cscurmudgeon 7y ago

And corruption. Just one example: http://sfappeal.com/2013/05/arrest-warrants-issued-for-sf-schools-employees-accused-of-15-million-corruption-scam/ http://sfappeal.com/2013/05/arrest-warrants-issued-for-sf-sc...