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Amen, like you mention there are a couple of hurdles to get around but the reproducibility far outweighs that cost. Before docker trying to get virtually anythi

Amen, like you mention there are a couple of hurdles to get around but the reproducibility far outweighs that cost. Before docker trying to get virtually anything running on a variety of machines was a total nightmare

alfiedotwtf 7y ago
This. Every company I’ve ever worked for, to setup a dev environment and get the product passing test suites has been days to weeks. And without the automation and standard operating environment, every release was filled with missing dependencies because developers only tested on their local precious system. A side benefit to moving to containers is not contaminating your own machine with libraries or even breaking it because of versioning or config issues. Docker gets developers and production machines on the same page. ... I would never go back to bare metal development
- nitrogen 7y ago
  Another downside of the containers-for-dev approach is that your company's stack might be too big to fit in a 16GB laptop when run as containers in a VM with dedicated memory.
  - alfiedotwtf 7y ago
    Sure, but do you need production data for development? Most people would just synthesizer what’s needed to run
    - nitrogen 7y ago
      I mean the code -- having to spin up 30 JVMs for a medium sized org's working stack takes a while and brings a MacBook Pro to its knees. This could probably be improved, if it were deemed sufficiently organizationally important.
    - winrid 7y ago
      Well if your environment is 100 services and each one takes 512mb of ram (that's being generous w/ what I've seen for the typical Spring Java app) at idle...
- speedplane 7y ago
  > Docker gets developers and production machines on the same page. ... I would never go back to bare metal development Instead of reading this article as "docker containers are bad" (wrong), try reading it as "there are problems with docker containers that can be improved" (right). Containers fix a large number of issues, and many of these fixes directly benefit developers. But the article is right to point out inefficiencies that docker introduces in developer workflows. Docker may be taking developers and ops three steps forward, but for some, it's also one step backwards.
  - alfiedotwtf 7y ago
    Sure there may be some issues, but as you say, we're moving two steps forward :)

alfiedotwtf 7y ago

This. Every company I’ve ever worked for, to setup a dev environment and get the product passing test suites has been days to weeks. And without the automation and standard operating environment, every release was filled with missing dependencies because developers only tested on their local precious system. A side benefit to moving to containers is not contaminating your own machine with libraries or even breaking it because of versioning or config issues. Docker gets developers and production machines on the same page. ... I would never go back to bare metal development

nitrogen 7y ago
Another downside of the containers-for-dev approach is that your company's stack might be too big to fit in a 16GB laptop when run as containers in a VM with dedicated memory.
- alfiedotwtf 7y ago
  Sure, but do you need production data for development? Most people would just synthesizer what’s needed to run
  - nitrogen 7y ago
    I mean the code -- having to spin up 30 JVMs for a medium sized org's working stack takes a while and brings a MacBook Pro to its knees. This could probably be improved, if it were deemed sufficiently organizationally important.
  - winrid 7y ago
    Well if your environment is 100 services and each one takes 512mb of ram (that's being generous w/ what I've seen for the typical Spring Java app) at idle...
speedplane 7y ago
> Docker gets developers and production machines on the same page. ... I would never go back to bare metal development Instead of reading this article as "docker containers are bad" (wrong), try reading it as "there are problems with docker containers that can be improved" (right). Containers fix a large number of issues, and many of these fixes directly benefit developers. But the article is right to point out inefficiencies that docker introduces in developer workflows. Docker may be taking developers and ops three steps forward, but for some, it's also one step backwards.
- alfiedotwtf 7y ago
  Sure there may be some issues, but as you say, we're moving two steps forward :)