13 ms·

Intuit to buy Credit Karma for $7B

234 points by totaldude87 7y ago

dangus 7y ago
100% this is to squash Credit Karma’s free tax product. This whole for-profit tax software market needs to be killed.
- lefstathiou 7y ago
  No, they are one of the biggest sources of lead gen for credit products in the US.
  - lvh 7y ago
    That doesn't sound like a terribly convincing reason why a complex tax code made possible only by for-profit services is desirable, unless you only evaluate it from the perspective of an $INTU/$V/$BAC... shareholder. In Belgium, most people's taxes are a postcard that says "here's what we think you owe, do nothing if you agree". Before that it was about the work of a single 1099-EZ. (Belgium is not unique in this.)
    - harryh 7y ago
      The biggest source of tax complexity for Americans is our multi level government. Everyone has to file a Federal and State return. Many have to file returns in multiple states and some have taxes at the city level as well. This is mostly due to the size of the country (compared to, say, Switzerland) and doesn't have anything to do with for-profit tax software.
      - meesles 7y ago
        Lets not forget to note that these companies in the USA have actively lobbied against simplifying taxes for citizens. So yes the size of the country adds complexity but our nasty capitalism makes it worse.
        harryh 7y ago
        People say this, but it's not really clear to me if this is true. When I look at my (more complex than average) tax return I see a lot of ways to simplify things but most of them would involve going against a major interest of one of the two parties. Consider, for example, the deductibility of state and local taxes. This is a source of significant tax code complexity, but various constituencies have howled quite loudly about even reducing the amount of the deduction. I am doubtful that it can be eliminated completely.
        willvarfar 7y ago
        https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f... dives in, but it’s been covered on a gazillion mainstream news coverage over the years.
        harryh 7y ago
        Yes, I've read that before. I think there is some truth that Intuit has had some role in limiting tax software rollouts by the IRS. However I think it's probably overstated. There is a ton of complexity in the US tax code due to various political interests of the DEMs or GOPs. It's this complexity that is really the source of most of the problems. Unfortunately there just isn't much of a constituency in the US for eliminating tax code complexity.
        willvarfar 7y ago
        No matter how complicated the tax code, the government know in advance how much you should pay. (Imagine the code was so complicated that they didn’t know, and they relied on your honesty. How well would that work?) In all the countries I’ve lived, the government simply tells you that number. You can dispute it if you think it wrong. In the US, you have to tell them that number, and you had better have added it up right because they can trivially check. Oh, and you pay for this privilege?
      - lvh 7y ago
        You're telling me -- I file estimated taxes quarterly in three states plus federally! Anyway: both Switzerland (your example) and Belgium (my example) have multi-layered governments. Belgium's one is particularly complex, with "communities" which are language unions and "regions" that largely overlap but not quite, as well as province-level and city-level taxes. Each of these has their own institutions and most incur taxes. The multi-layered government is far more complex than the US, but this does not result in comparable complexity to my US filing. (I'd also argue it's far more sensitive: secession has been a possible outcome in my lifetime in a way that it really has not been in the US.) Meanwhile: the IRS has simply agreed not to provide free tax filing software. Why is that good for taxpayers?
        harryh 7y ago
        I suppose I don't really know much about Switzerland[1] or Belgium's tax codes. My working assumption is that the population differences (both are the size of US states) leads to simplicity. But I'm perfectly willing to admit I might be wrong here. I really don't know. I do know that there are weird and frustrating intertwinings of US Federal and State tax codes and I wish I didn't have to deal with that. Kill the SALT deduction! 1. Er, not sure why I brought another small European country into the discussion. I meant to replicate your example but brainfarted.
        lvh 7y ago
        English-language Wikipedia does not have a great article on Belgian taxation complexity, but it has a great article on structural complexity that highlights the weird "almost-entirely-overlaps" structure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communities,_regions_and_language_areas_of_Belgium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communities,_regions_and_langu... Mind you that this does not even anything at city level. Imagine if Illinois was mostly part of the Midwest Region (a governmental entity that transcends states but is not federal and also has a tax authority), but not including Chicago. That'd be close. Also the largest party in its government wants the Midwest to secede from the Union.
        zamfi 7y ago
- gigatexal 7y ago
  Agreed. I’d pull the trigger myself. The tax code is far too complex. And the fact that these companies have gone out of their way to thwart free tax returns should be illegal.
- longstation 7y ago
  I used CK's free filing this year and already got the returns back. I was happy that there's finally a good free option I can use but now I hear this, I am kind of sad.
- aphextron 7y ago
  RIP one of my favorite products
- pookeh 7y ago
  In Canada I use https://simpletax.ca https://simpletax.ca. Their software is super easy to use (even easier than TT) ...and it's pay what you want. Needless to say my "donation" to them has been increasing over the years.
  - te_chris 7y ago
    In the UK and back home in NZ I use the govt. websites.
  - smnrchrds 7y ago
    In Canada, we have some good free—really free—tax programs. Studio Tax is another one if you prefer to have everything on your computer instead of in the cloud. I think the reason good free tax filing exists in Canada, but not in the US, is partly because US tax code is too complicated, and partly because there there are dozens of them: federal, 50 states, and a couple of territories, each with their own tax rules. In Canada, you have one federal and 13 provincial and territorial tax codes; and you only have to file taxes to two agencies: CRA/ARC and Revenu Québec. It is orders of magnitude easier to make a tax software for Canada, thus giving it away for free is possible. For many years, SimpleTax/ImpôtSimple was a three-person operation. Their team has grown to 12 people now [0]. I imagine if they want to extend their services to US, they need to increase their headcount by a factor of ten or more. And at that point, not charging for use would no longer be an option. [0] https://simpletax.ca/about https://simpletax.ca/about
  - tenpies 7y ago
    Wealthsimple bought Simpletax a while ago: https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/wealthsimple-expands-into-tax-software-with-acquisition-of-simpletax-1.1320920 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/wealthsimple-expands-into-tax-so... Make sure you update your privacy settings: https://www.privasectech.com/changes-to-simpletax/ https://www.privasectech.com/changes-to-simpletax/
    - generatorguy 7y ago
      I use genutax works great, free, updated every year and uploads your return for you!
- awinder 7y ago
  This was my first thought as well, although I’m having a hard time judging the value proposition of TurboTax right now. I was going to test out credit karmas tax filing this year but TurboTax definitely has a lot more thorough integrations. I could definitely get my taxes done in credit karma and save some cash but its pretty clear there is a fair time vs. money proposition at play. That said this experiment may come to an early end with this acquisition ;-).
- jetrink 7y ago
  If Intuit's strategy is to spend billions to kill free tax products, then that would suggest that there's a huge reward for the next organization that can replicate Credit Karma's success. Is it really that difficult to build tax software?
  - colejohnson66 7y ago
    It depends. There’s 1 federal return (albeit with many different forms) and 50 states (each with their own system). TurboTax, H&R Block, and CreditKarma keep track of all the changes for you. And if you make a mistake in your software and the user gets audited, you can bet you’ll be sued by the user eventually.
    - selectodude 7y ago
      And all of the documents that you need are free online. I can’t imagine there’s much more to it than a time investment.
      - manquer 7y ago
        It is recurring investment though, every year tax codes keep changing, you need to keep it all updated . That’s an enormous cost and relatively unique to this kind of application.
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        I suppose the solution is to just keep donating to and enabling candidates running for federal office who support providing the IRS with the legislation and technology support to do their job (streamline tax processing) and break Intuit’s pseudo monopoly. On the plus side, it’s a lot harder to buy someone with morals than a VC backed startup.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        bmm6o 7y ago
- bsharitt 7y ago
  It won't go away, at least not immediately. It'll get dumbed down and users will be offered an "upgrade" to TurboTax for more features.
- thedanbob 7y ago
  And it had just gotten good too, they’d worked out all the rough edges from the first couple of years. Very disappointing.
- onetimemanytime 7y ago
  Intuit better have the next $7 Billion ready again and again...if CreditKarma did so can another company.
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > 100% this is to squash Credit Karma’s free tax product. 100% to get credit karma's valuable user data. Intuit also has free tax product ( fed and state ). Their for-profit tax product is for more complex tax preparation ( home sales, stock sales, etc ) or people with higher income.
- mcovey 7y ago
  I suspect you're right, that's a shame, I've used Credit Karma tax 2 years now, it's been very easy because they haven't over-complicated the UI, it's mostly just a simpler, gently guided interface to enter the values you see on your tax forms. I'm sure there will continue to be plenty of free ways to file my taxes - I usually owe a little bit every year so I'm not very keen on paying even more to file - but the sites I used before Credit Karma were all just more complicated and took longer to file. One thing that's usually hard to find is the form to enter my mortgage credit certificate. Since it's not the most common thing (a program for first-time homebuyers / buyers in targeted areas administered on a state level) I've usually had to go through some wizard and answer the questions just right (e.g. lie and say I bought a house within the past year) to get it to offer me that form, rather than just picking it from a long list of options.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
notadev 7y ago
I used TurboTax again this year. I tried using a free alternative called "FreeFillableForms" or something similar. It was like the site was made by someone who was just trying to push something out that worked but was not very intuitive. At some point I got to a point where I needed clarification and just could not find it so I went back to TT. After using TT, I clicked on one of the promotions and installed an app called Turbo. It was a CreditKarma clone that gave me horrible scores that didn't seem to mesh with any other source I could find. I think CreditKarm is just going to be rebranded as Turbo.
- tehlike 7y ago
  "Free File Fillable Forms is delivered by Intuit."
- thrower123 7y ago
  I'm starting to get the feeling that I'm paying protection money to Turbotax to have them ward off the gaze of what IRS auditors still exist. I'm not sure it is even possible to file a return that they couldn't nail you to the wall on something if they wanted to. But... it took me an hour to do my taxes, and my refund was direct deposited in a little over a week. So at least it works.
- astura 7y ago
  Why not use TaxHawk? It's $0 for a federal return, $15 for a state return (not required), and an established company with a good UI.
- metasaval 7y ago
  FYI, Credit Karma has their own tax filing tool [0], which I'm using this year after using TT the last two years, and I find it more understandable for my simple returns. Honestly, what I'm worried about is that CK's tool disappears. [0] tax.creditkarma.com
- WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
  I like TaxAct.com... but I may be biased because it's pretty easy to use.
bathtub365 7y ago
http://archive.is/no4r5 http://archive.is/no4r5
asadhaider 7y ago
I wonder if this would affect their UK product which gives free credit reports, I was moved over to them after Credit Karma US/CA acquired Noddle [0] and they rebranded. It was a little frustrating that they gave no opt-out to move customers and their data over to Credit Karma. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/04/credit-karma-acquires-noddle-from-transunion-and-expands-to-the-uk/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/04/credit-karma-acquires-nodd...
twodave 7y ago
For the tax payer who uses a free file option or one of the lower tiers of a product like Turbo Tax, I consider it a crime that the government doesn’t do the tax calc for those people and simply send out either a bill or a refund. The government has all the information they need to do this, and over time the gaps can be filled by requiring additional paperwork from tax entities like employers, non-profits, financial institutions, etc. There is way less paperwork this way and instead of filing a return one would simply file a dispute with documentation or else accept the government’s numbers. For the vast majority of Americans the math is dead simple. For those of us who run a business and pass through as ordinary income, we should really only have to file the business return, not both business and personal.
- ianai 7y ago
  I think that’s been promised by several presidents over the years and never delivered. That or just a simple 1 page post card sized file.
  - harryh 7y ago
    It has never been a credible promise. Unfortunately.
- spookthesunset 7y ago
  A certain political party who shall go unnamed views making taxes simple is the same as raising them. They would argue that if all you got in the mail was a postcard the government could raise taxes and you’d never notice. Take that however you want, but that is why we don’t have easy taxes in the US.
  - harryh 7y ago
    And the other major political party consistently adds complexities to the tax code either as a form of social welfare or to extract revenue to pay for their projects. The EITC, the AMT, the NIIT, all sorts of deductions. Unfortunately, there is not really a constituency in either party for simplified taxes.
brm 7y ago
Three people start a credit website because they want free access to their information. 11 years later they sell it to a company who actively tries to squash free access. Is there a German word for companies that grow and then exit this way?
- marvindanig 7y ago
  schadengoose
  - mrunkel 7y ago
    Schadengans bitte. :) And no, that’s not a real German word.
    - skrebbel 7y ago
      That's why it was so good
- tehlike 7y ago
  The story of how companies start is just for inspiration It doesnt sound as sexy when you say: we want to make money, and credit agencies suck. We can suck less.
- chx 7y ago
  There's an English blog for it... https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/ https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/
- scarface74 7y ago
  There’s an English phrase for it “a company that takes VC funding”. But honestly, there are only a few tech companies that I see were really started with the idea of being a “lifestyle business” without the eventual goal of being acquired. Yes going public is another option but relatively few tech startups ever go public.
- mobjack 7y ago
  Free access as a loss leader to push targeted financial products for profit.
Ozzie_osman 7y ago
It's exactly these types of deals that regulators should look at if they want to prevent more monopolies in tech. You have what amounts to an entrenched business maintained by millions of lobbying dollars [1], buying a younger player offering the same service for free. [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...
- scarface74 7y ago
  What do you think would happen to the startup culture if the government made it harder for a company to be acquired?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - sitkack 7y ago
    Did you pitch for a t-ball team, because thanks for that sweet setup! We would have more sound business plans and ideas. Startup culture would be more about creating entities that can exist on their own (adults) vs a danger to be let loose into an existing market. The later is a shakedown, but lets not conflate the shakedown with our own goals of seeing outmoded businesses getting replaced. If we had free standing startups that can function on their own, they have the ability to replace existing players by being able to function long term and respond to changes. If we create startups that are then sold to the incumbents, we perpetuate their hegemony. These large corporations are effectively buying organs to stay alive.
    - aerovistae 7y ago
      Well put!!
    - scarface74 7y ago
chirau 7y ago
By the way, how does Credit Karma make money?
- vidanay 7y ago
  Advertising.
  - umeshunni 7y ago
    More specifically, lead gen for financial products like credit cards.
- sshumaker 7y ago
  https://www.creditkarma.com/faq/howitworks https://www.creditkarma.com/faq/howitworks
- throwaway98797 7y ago
  Affiliate revenue. Lenders, like lending club pays them $200-$400 for each loan it funds as a result of a referral. Credit card companies (chase) pays $500+ for each approved credit application.
edcastano 7y ago
Let's hope this isn't a replay of the Mint acquisition. Purchased and left to stagnate for a decade.
- vinhboy 7y ago
  Why does everyone keep saying this. Mint has gotten more reliable over the years. They even recently started rolling out direct integration with many big banks. I still remember the days when they couldn't download data from places like Chase for months at a time.
  - echelon 7y ago
    Don't they still have pieces of their website that rely on Adobe Flash? I haven't personally used them in years, but I distinctly recall reading this on a very recent criticism of their service. If that's true, then that's a sure sign of stagnation.
    - miked85 7y ago
      The investments section was flash up until very recently, I think they just got rid of flash and updated that section in the last few weeks.
  - mus1cfl0w 7y ago
    Because it’s true, it’s a terrible piece of software. The account sync is unreliable, the automatic tagging of expenses is horribly off most of the time and on top of all they sell your data to creditors and other third parties. No, thank you. Look at Copilot if you want to do all of this but much better!
mrosett 7y ago
Well shit. They’re going to give it the Mint treatment, starting with the free tax software. I can’t blame the founders for selling out but this one stings.
- alharith 7y ago
  Credit Karma recently opened a decent sized office in my city and is continuing to expand. There are still 26+ engineering roles posted. I visit the office frequently and know a lot of the director levels and up working there. They aren't going anywhere or stopping anything they are doing.
ajaimk 7y ago
How does this deal not violate Anti-trust law? The FTC should block this deal as it is not going to be good for consumers.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- scarface74 7y ago
  Almost every VC backed startup’s goal is to get acquired. Any company that wanted to acquire it would still be considered “anti-trust” by HN “standards”.
  - nojvek 7y ago
    I think this statement ^ is very generic. Google acquiring Credit Karma would have been okay-ish. Intuit acquiring gives them a monopoly on tax filing software. They’ve already done a fair amount of lobbying for anti-consumer practices. Basically if America is just a bunch of really large corporations, it makes life worse and doesn’t let us produce more innovative solutions to our problems. Because monopolies are rent seekers and they love to milk their cash cows.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      There are only two outcomes of Google acquiring CreditKarma and neither of them are good. A) Google shuts it down or neglects it like it has done with so many other products B) Google now has more information on users to target advertising and now has an even larger part of the duopoly on advertising and has more information about users - including social security numbers and credit information. I don’t see how either is a good outcome.
      - nojvek 7y ago
        Okay Google was a terrible example since they are a targeted advertising duopoly with FB.
- 7y ago
yalogin 7y ago
Genuine question - what do they do? I thought they just offer credit checking and monitoring services that look scammy a little bit. Didn’t realize there is so much money in this, no wonder we see so many of these pop up.
- anderspitman 7y ago
  Like every other "free" financial product, they try to manipulate people into consumer debt. Oh and selling your data as a side hussle.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    They sell access to you. They don’t sell your data.
    - soared 7y ago
      Technically that is the same thing google and Facebook do.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        Exactly. I’m not trying to be pedantic, but it’s important to be clear about the issue before you start proposing solutions. If the government passed a law tomorrow saying that companies couldn’t share user data with third parties, it wouldn’t change anything about Facebook, Google’s or Credit Karma’s business model. Not that I’m saying we need government intervention.
  - beager 7y ago
    “If the service is free, you’re the product”
sergiotapia 7y ago
God dammit we need reform to make tax preparation companies extinct. Why is something mandatory so complicated?
scrooched_moose 7y ago
Well crap. Time to file my taxes for this year and cancel my account. This is the reason I won't sign up for any new startup ever - it seems that eventually they all get acquired by one of the old guard behemoths anyway. No matter how virtuous and privacy focused they are, that all gets destroyed when someone buys them.
- propogandist 7y ago
  CreditKarma was far from privacy focused, their T&C + Privacy policy gave them lots of grounds to mine and sell user data. Personal income information about users is generally 3rd party estimates for ads/marketing industry, but by offering a free Tax service, CK was able gather information on actual income about users, which is extremely valuable data. This would be very lucrative for data-brokers or sold as targetable and proprietary 'audience data', which can be combined with other data-sources to support marketing activities.
  - scrooched_moose 7y ago
    They may not have been perfect (and I was aware of their policy), but there's no scenario I can see where Intuit won't be dramatically worse.
    - perplex 7y ago
      I use hrblock online for taxes and at least there you can opt out of information mining.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    The whole idea that companies like Facebook, Google or Credit Karma “sell user data” is a misnomer. Companies don’t sell user data, they sell access to you based on the data they have. The distinction is important. They don’t give third parties a list of users that meet a certain criteria, companies tell them that they want to advertise to users who meet a certain criteria. User data is far too important to sell.
kull 7y ago
Any good credit karma alternatives? Seems we must switch.
- miked85 7y ago
  Both WalletHub and Credit Sesame are comparable.
vsskanth 7y ago
What's the biggest blocker to making an OSS GPL tax prep software for the US market ?
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  The tax code with federal, state and so on is extremely complex and you also have a hard deadline every year . Hard to do this with volunteers. The IRS already has an implementation of the tax code. It would be great if they open sourced it as public service.
- jedberg 7y ago
  The tax code is very complex. It takes a legion of programmers (most of whom also have tax accounting and/or tax law training) just to translate the tax code into computer code. You're unlikely to find enough volunteers to maintain that. Also, TurboTax is an entity you can sue if they get it wrong and you get audited because of the error. An OSS project would be a magic black box. I wouldn't use an OSS tax prep software because I have no way of knowing if it's correct, nor is there anyone to take responsibility if it isn't.
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    Apparently the IRS was almost done finishing the mainframe to Java conversion of one of their modules and the programmer’s (a PRC national) contract which his visa was tied to expired
    - iudqnolq 7y ago
      That sounds fascinating. Do you have a link or some more specific keywords I could search? I would like to learn more about that.
      - bobbiechen 7y ago
        Looks like this is the story [1], though it seems the reason is actually some kind of funding-related issue: Wang was working under streamlined critical pay authority the agency has had since its landmark 1998 restructuring. It gave the IRS 40 slots under which it could pay temporary, full-time employees higher than GS rates. Former Commissioner John Koskinen pointed out Congress did not re-up this authority in 2013, despite his entreaties to former Congressman Jason Chaffetz’s Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. “The last one ran out this past summer,” Koskinen said. The departures included Wang. He says he applied to become a GS-15 or Senior Executive Service member so he could see through the assembler-to-Java project. But his approval didn’t come through until a week before his employment authority expired. By then he’d accepted another job. Wang says he had a house to pay for, kids to educate. Koskinen confirms the agency wanted to convert Wang. But the process of approval from Treasury headquarters and the Office of Personnel Management simply took too long. And here's a follow-up from this year [2] which also describes the patent that came out of that work [3]. [1] https://federalnewsnetwork.com/tom-temin-commentary/2018/01/irs-clutches-its-modernization-holy-grail/ https://federalnewsnetwork.com/tom-temin-commentary/2018/01/... [2] https://federalnewsnetwork.com/tom-temin-commentary/2020/01/irs-programming-mystery-continues/ https://federalnewsnetwork.com/tom-temin-commentary/2020/01/... [3] https://federalnewsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/IRS-patent-10_2019.pdf https://federalnewsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/IR...
excerionsforte 7y ago
My first reaction is NOOOOOOOO. I first used Credit Karma in college, which made me aware of my credit score. Credit Karma had a credit simulator at that time, which I would play around with to see what was the best course of action to get my score up up in a very short amount of time. I got to where I want and will maintain it. Credit Karma's tax solution is the best I have ever used for my case! I still use Mint, but it is in maintenance mode. I can only hope that the CK's tax solution stays intact in not a transition to TurboTax. The for-profit tax companies already screwed up with the IRS revamping the agreement, so as to compete with them: https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-is-still-tricking-customers-with-tax-prep-ads-that-misuse-the-word-free https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-is-still-trickin.... I hope the government will take good advantage of this opportunity.
- scarface74 7y ago
  I use Credit Karma but the “Fako Credit Score” has little to do with the credit score lenders use.
  - excerionsforte 7y ago
    Well one landlord asked for a printout of the Credit Report and Credit Karma was cited as one source of report. :) Credit Score is applicable to many places. Their Credit Alerts feature did alert my to fraudulent activity almost immediately At this point if CK had offered a subscription side, I would have bought in.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      They were being cheap. I was a landlord at one point. It’s about $30 to use a tenant screening service and you charge that as an “application fee”.
      - excerionsforte 7y ago
        Ey, I won't complain about what a landlord requires if it don't cost me anything and they get the information they need to rent me a place. :)
jimbob45 7y ago
Practical question: where else can I check my credit score for free?
- intopieces 7y ago
  All my credit cards offer this now.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    They offer your score(s), but they don’t offer you information about your trade lines or specific information about those trade lines when changes occur.
- astura 7y ago
  Credit Sesame and https://www.freecreditscore.com/ https://www.freecreditscore.com/ (used to be a sketchy site but its now owned by Experian) And others: https://www.doctorofcredit.com/whats-best-cheapest-way-monitor-credit/ https://www.doctorofcredit.com/whats-best-cheapest-way-monit...
- shmerl 7y ago
  Some banks now offer this for free.
s3graham 7y ago
I was sort-of glad that Wealthsimple bought SimpleTax (Canada) before Intuit had a chance to swallow them. Hopefully that one works out.
____hacker____ 7y ago
Bye credit karma. Consumers will make this deal another verizon tumbler.
neonate 7y ago
https://archive.md/no4r5 https://archive.md/no4r5
lancewiggs 7y ago
They acquired Mint years ago on the premise that a free consumer app selling financial products would make a great return. That didn’t work. This smells similar, with a dose of consolidation of the tax software market. (Pocketsmith investor)
- sp527 7y ago
  Were they not able to monetize it? I know Mint upsells and has some ads, but was under the impression that the real value was in the data.
rayhendricks 7y ago
Intuit and TurboTax are responsible for needlessly wasting Americans time by making us reenter our tax information. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/316967/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article... so yeah it’s pretty awful. Kredit Karma tax filing software is actually really good though, so I do not see a reason for them to keep it around though.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  I don't find the credit karma tax UX to be quite as good as TurboTax, although I very happily used it this year because it's free. I suspect Intuit will not maintain a free alternative to one of their main products :/
camel_gopher 7y ago
Bye bye credit karma
shmerl 7y ago
Too bad. A solid reason not to touch Credit Karma ever again.
jitendrac 7y ago
I am not from US,but I think It deserves Anti-trust scrutiny.
bryanmgreen 7y ago
The question I'd like to ask any company that has a mission and compromises it in a controlling-stake sale is: "What justified you selling-out or was your mission just a ploy?" $7B is no small change, but I bet they could have come up with another scenario that would have allowed them to make still substantive and life-altering sums of money without compromising.
- mcrae 7y ago
  Jeez man their mission wasn’t to solve world hunger or bring peace to the Middle East. It was a credit app that refered people to credit products. They sold to a financial company. Seems pretty consistent.
  - bryanmgreen 7y ago
    I'm not judging (at least not really in this scenario because, yeah, they're not doing world-altering stuff), just scientifically wondering where a line might be and why it would be put there in the first place.
brianTheDog 7y ago
They spends a bunch of money making taxes harder so we depend on them. Then they buy out all their competitors. Intuit is a shit company. The government needs to step in and break that up.

234 points by totaldude87 7y ago

dangus 7y ago

100% this is to squash Credit Karma’s free tax product. This whole for-profit tax software market needs to be killed.

lefstathiou 7y ago
No, they are one of the biggest sources of lead gen for credit products in the US.
- lvh 7y ago
  That doesn't sound like a terribly convincing reason why a complex tax code made possible only by for-profit services is desirable, unless you only evaluate it from the perspective of an $INTU/$V/$BAC... shareholder. In Belgium, most people's taxes are a postcard that says "here's what we think you owe, do nothing if you agree". Before that it was about the work of a single 1099-EZ. (Belgium is not unique in this.)
  - harryh 7y ago
    The biggest source of tax complexity for Americans is our multi level government. Everyone has to file a Federal and State return. Many have to file returns in multiple states and some have taxes at the city level as well. This is mostly due to the size of the country (compared to, say, Switzerland) and doesn't have anything to do with for-profit tax software.
    - meesles 7y ago
      Lets not forget to note that these companies in the USA have actively lobbied against simplifying taxes for citizens. So yes the size of the country adds complexity but our nasty capitalism makes it worse.
      - harryh 7y ago
        People say this, but it's not really clear to me if this is true. When I look at my (more complex than average) tax return I see a lot of ways to simplify things but most of them would involve going against a major interest of one of the two parties. Consider, for example, the deductibility of state and local taxes. This is a source of significant tax code complexity, but various constituencies have howled quite loudly about even reducing the amount of the deduction. I am doubtful that it can be eliminated completely.
        willvarfar 7y ago
        https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f... dives in, but it’s been covered on a gazillion mainstream news coverage over the years.
        harryh 7y ago
        Yes, I've read that before. I think there is some truth that Intuit has had some role in limiting tax software rollouts by the IRS. However I think it's probably overstated. There is a ton of complexity in the US tax code due to various political interests of the DEMs or GOPs. It's this complexity that is really the source of most of the problems. Unfortunately there just isn't much of a constituency in the US for eliminating tax code complexity.
        willvarfar 7y ago
        No matter how complicated the tax code, the government know in advance how much you should pay. (Imagine the code was so complicated that they didn’t know, and they relied on your honesty. How well would that work?) In all the countries I’ve lived, the government simply tells you that number. You can dispute it if you think it wrong. In the US, you have to tell them that number, and you had better have added it up right because they can trivially check. Oh, and you pay for this privilege?
    - lvh 7y ago
      You're telling me -- I file estimated taxes quarterly in three states plus federally! Anyway: both Switzerland (your example) and Belgium (my example) have multi-layered governments. Belgium's one is particularly complex, with "communities" which are language unions and "regions" that largely overlap but not quite, as well as province-level and city-level taxes. Each of these has their own institutions and most incur taxes. The multi-layered government is far more complex than the US, but this does not result in comparable complexity to my US filing. (I'd also argue it's far more sensitive: secession has been a possible outcome in my lifetime in a way that it really has not been in the US.) Meanwhile: the IRS has simply agreed not to provide free tax filing software. Why is that good for taxpayers?
      - harryh 7y ago
        I suppose I don't really know much about Switzerland[1] or Belgium's tax codes. My working assumption is that the population differences (both are the size of US states) leads to simplicity. But I'm perfectly willing to admit I might be wrong here. I really don't know. I do know that there are weird and frustrating intertwinings of US Federal and State tax codes and I wish I didn't have to deal with that. Kill the SALT deduction! 1. Er, not sure why I brought another small European country into the discussion. I meant to replicate your example but brainfarted.
        lvh 7y ago
        English-language Wikipedia does not have a great article on Belgian taxation complexity, but it has a great article on structural complexity that highlights the weird "almost-entirely-overlaps" structure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communities,_regions_and_language_areas_of_Belgium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communities,_regions_and_langu... Mind you that this does not even anything at city level. Imagine if Illinois was mostly part of the Midwest Region (a governmental entity that transcends states but is not federal and also has a tax authority), but not including Chicago. That'd be close. Also the largest party in its government wants the Midwest to secede from the Union.
        zamfi 7y ago
gigatexal 7y ago
Agreed. I’d pull the trigger myself. The tax code is far too complex. And the fact that these companies have gone out of their way to thwart free tax returns should be illegal.
longstation 7y ago
I used CK's free filing this year and already got the returns back. I was happy that there's finally a good free option I can use but now I hear this, I am kind of sad.
aphextron 7y ago
RIP one of my favorite products
pookeh 7y ago
In Canada I use https://simpletax.ca https://simpletax.ca. Their software is super easy to use (even easier than TT) ...and it's pay what you want. Needless to say my "donation" to them has been increasing over the years.
- te_chris 7y ago
  In the UK and back home in NZ I use the govt. websites.
- smnrchrds 7y ago
  In Canada, we have some good free—really free—tax programs. Studio Tax is another one if you prefer to have everything on your computer instead of in the cloud. I think the reason good free tax filing exists in Canada, but not in the US, is partly because US tax code is too complicated, and partly because there there are dozens of them: federal, 50 states, and a couple of territories, each with their own tax rules. In Canada, you have one federal and 13 provincial and territorial tax codes; and you only have to file taxes to two agencies: CRA/ARC and Revenu Québec. It is orders of magnitude easier to make a tax software for Canada, thus giving it away for free is possible. For many years, SimpleTax/ImpôtSimple was a three-person operation. Their team has grown to 12 people now [0]. I imagine if they want to extend their services to US, they need to increase their headcount by a factor of ten or more. And at that point, not charging for use would no longer be an option. [0] https://simpletax.ca/about https://simpletax.ca/about
- tenpies 7y ago
  Wealthsimple bought Simpletax a while ago: https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/wealthsimple-expands-into-tax-software-with-acquisition-of-simpletax-1.1320920 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/wealthsimple-expands-into-tax-so... Make sure you update your privacy settings: https://www.privasectech.com/changes-to-simpletax/ https://www.privasectech.com/changes-to-simpletax/
  - generatorguy 7y ago
    I use genutax works great, free, updated every year and uploads your return for you!
awinder 7y ago
This was my first thought as well, although I’m having a hard time judging the value proposition of TurboTax right now. I was going to test out credit karmas tax filing this year but TurboTax definitely has a lot more thorough integrations. I could definitely get my taxes done in credit karma and save some cash but its pretty clear there is a fair time vs. money proposition at play. That said this experiment may come to an early end with this acquisition ;-).
jetrink 7y ago
If Intuit's strategy is to spend billions to kill free tax products, then that would suggest that there's a huge reward for the next organization that can replicate Credit Karma's success. Is it really that difficult to build tax software?
- colejohnson66 7y ago
  It depends. There’s 1 federal return (albeit with many different forms) and 50 states (each with their own system). TurboTax, H&R Block, and CreditKarma keep track of all the changes for you. And if you make a mistake in your software and the user gets audited, you can bet you’ll be sued by the user eventually.
  - selectodude 7y ago
    And all of the documents that you need are free online. I can’t imagine there’s much more to it than a time investment.
    - manquer 7y ago
      It is recurring investment though, every year tax codes keep changing, you need to keep it all updated . That’s an enormous cost and relatively unique to this kind of application.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        I suppose the solution is to just keep donating to and enabling candidates running for federal office who support providing the IRS with the legislation and technology support to do their job (streamline tax processing) and break Intuit’s pseudo monopoly. On the plus side, it’s a lot harder to buy someone with morals than a VC backed startup.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - bmm6o 7y ago
bsharitt 7y ago
It won't go away, at least not immediately. It'll get dumbed down and users will be offered an "upgrade" to TurboTax for more features.
thedanbob 7y ago
And it had just gotten good too, they’d worked out all the rough edges from the first couple of years. Very disappointing.
onetimemanytime 7y ago
Intuit better have the next $7 Billion ready again and again...if CreditKarma did so can another company.
dntbnmpls 7y ago
> 100% this is to squash Credit Karma’s free tax product. 100% to get credit karma's valuable user data. Intuit also has free tax product ( fed and state ). Their for-profit tax product is for more complex tax preparation ( home sales, stock sales, etc ) or people with higher income.
mcovey 7y ago
I suspect you're right, that's a shame, I've used Credit Karma tax 2 years now, it's been very easy because they haven't over-complicated the UI, it's mostly just a simpler, gently guided interface to enter the values you see on your tax forms. I'm sure there will continue to be plenty of free ways to file my taxes - I usually owe a little bit every year so I'm not very keen on paying even more to file - but the sites I used before Credit Karma were all just more complicated and took longer to file. One thing that's usually hard to find is the form to enter my mortgage credit certificate. Since it's not the most common thing (a program for first-time homebuyers / buyers in targeted areas administered on a state level) I've usually had to go through some wizard and answer the questions just right (e.g. lie and say I bought a house within the past year) to get it to offer me that form, rather than just picking it from a long list of options.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

notadev 7y ago

I used TurboTax again this year. I tried using a free alternative called "FreeFillableForms" or something similar. It was like the site was made by someone who was just trying to push something out that worked but was not very intuitive. At some point I got to a point where I needed clarification and just could not find it so I went back to TT. After using TT, I clicked on one of the promotions and installed an app called Turbo. It was a CreditKarma clone that gave me horrible scores that didn't seem to mesh with any other source I could find. I think CreditKarm is just going to be rebranded as Turbo.

tehlike 7y ago
"Free File Fillable Forms is delivered by Intuit."
thrower123 7y ago
I'm starting to get the feeling that I'm paying protection money to Turbotax to have them ward off the gaze of what IRS auditors still exist. I'm not sure it is even possible to file a return that they couldn't nail you to the wall on something if they wanted to. But... it took me an hour to do my taxes, and my refund was direct deposited in a little over a week. So at least it works.
astura 7y ago
Why not use TaxHawk? It's $0 for a federal return, $15 for a state return (not required), and an established company with a good UI.
metasaval 7y ago
FYI, Credit Karma has their own tax filing tool [0], which I'm using this year after using TT the last two years, and I find it more understandable for my simple returns. Honestly, what I'm worried about is that CK's tool disappears. [0] tax.creditkarma.com
WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
I like TaxAct.com... but I may be biased because it's pretty easy to use.

bathtub365 7y ago

http://archive.is/no4r5 http://archive.is/no4r5

asadhaider 7y ago

I wonder if this would affect their UK product which gives free credit reports, I was moved over to them after Credit Karma US/CA acquired Noddle [0] and they rebranded. It was a little frustrating that they gave no opt-out to move customers and their data over to Credit Karma. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/04/credit-karma-acquires-noddle-from-transunion-and-expands-to-the-uk/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/04/credit-karma-acquires-nodd...

twodave 7y ago

For the tax payer who uses a free file option or one of the lower tiers of a product like Turbo Tax, I consider it a crime that the government doesn’t do the tax calc for those people and simply send out either a bill or a refund. The government has all the information they need to do this, and over time the gaps can be filled by requiring additional paperwork from tax entities like employers, non-profits, financial institutions, etc. There is way less paperwork this way and instead of filing a return one would simply file a dispute with documentation or else accept the government’s numbers. For the vast majority of Americans the math is dead simple. For those of us who run a business and pass through as ordinary income, we should really only have to file the business return, not both business and personal.

ianai 7y ago
I think that’s been promised by several presidents over the years and never delivered. That or just a simple 1 page post card sized file.
- harryh 7y ago
  It has never been a credible promise. Unfortunately.
spookthesunset 7y ago
A certain political party who shall go unnamed views making taxes simple is the same as raising them. They would argue that if all you got in the mail was a postcard the government could raise taxes and you’d never notice. Take that however you want, but that is why we don’t have easy taxes in the US.
- harryh 7y ago
  And the other major political party consistently adds complexities to the tax code either as a form of social welfare or to extract revenue to pay for their projects. The EITC, the AMT, the NIIT, all sorts of deductions. Unfortunately, there is not really a constituency in either party for simplified taxes.

brm 7y ago

Three people start a credit website because they want free access to their information. 11 years later they sell it to a company who actively tries to squash free access. Is there a German word for companies that grow and then exit this way?

marvindanig 7y ago
schadengoose
- mrunkel 7y ago
  Schadengans bitte. :) And no, that’s not a real German word.
  - skrebbel 7y ago
    That's why it was so good
tehlike 7y ago
The story of how companies start is just for inspiration It doesnt sound as sexy when you say: we want to make money, and credit agencies suck. We can suck less.
chx 7y ago
There's an English blog for it... https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/ https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/
scarface74 7y ago
There’s an English phrase for it “a company that takes VC funding”. But honestly, there are only a few tech companies that I see were really started with the idea of being a “lifestyle business” without the eventual goal of being acquired. Yes going public is another option but relatively few tech startups ever go public.
mobjack 7y ago
Free access as a loss leader to push targeted financial products for profit.

Ozzie_osman 7y ago

It's exactly these types of deals that regulators should look at if they want to prevent more monopolies in tech. You have what amounts to an entrenched business maintained by millions of lobbying dollars [1], buying a younger player offering the same service for free. [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...

scarface74 7y ago
What do you think would happen to the startup culture if the government made it harder for a company to be acquired?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- sitkack 7y ago
  Did you pitch for a t-ball team, because thanks for that sweet setup! We would have more sound business plans and ideas. Startup culture would be more about creating entities that can exist on their own (adults) vs a danger to be let loose into an existing market. The later is a shakedown, but lets not conflate the shakedown with our own goals of seeing outmoded businesses getting replaced. If we had free standing startups that can function on their own, they have the ability to replace existing players by being able to function long term and respond to changes. If we create startups that are then sold to the incumbents, we perpetuate their hegemony. These large corporations are effectively buying organs to stay alive.
  - aerovistae 7y ago
    Well put!!
  - scarface74 7y ago

chirau 7y ago

By the way, how does Credit Karma make money?

vidanay 7y ago
Advertising.
- umeshunni 7y ago
  More specifically, lead gen for financial products like credit cards.
sshumaker 7y ago
https://www.creditkarma.com/faq/howitworks https://www.creditkarma.com/faq/howitworks
throwaway98797 7y ago
Affiliate revenue. Lenders, like lending club pays them $200-$400 for each loan it funds as a result of a referral. Credit card companies (chase) pays $500+ for each approved credit application.

edcastano 7y ago

Let's hope this isn't a replay of the Mint acquisition. Purchased and left to stagnate for a decade.

vinhboy 7y ago
Why does everyone keep saying this. Mint has gotten more reliable over the years. They even recently started rolling out direct integration with many big banks. I still remember the days when they couldn't download data from places like Chase for months at a time.
- echelon 7y ago
  Don't they still have pieces of their website that rely on Adobe Flash? I haven't personally used them in years, but I distinctly recall reading this on a very recent criticism of their service. If that's true, then that's a sure sign of stagnation.
  - miked85 7y ago
    The investments section was flash up until very recently, I think they just got rid of flash and updated that section in the last few weeks.
- mus1cfl0w 7y ago
  Because it’s true, it’s a terrible piece of software. The account sync is unreliable, the automatic tagging of expenses is horribly off most of the time and on top of all they sell your data to creditors and other third parties. No, thank you. Look at Copilot if you want to do all of this but much better!

mrosett 7y ago

Well shit. They’re going to give it the Mint treatment, starting with the free tax software. I can’t blame the founders for selling out but this one stings.

alharith 7y ago
Credit Karma recently opened a decent sized office in my city and is continuing to expand. There are still 26+ engineering roles posted. I visit the office frequently and know a lot of the director levels and up working there. They aren't going anywhere or stopping anything they are doing.

ajaimk 7y ago

How does this deal not violate Anti-trust law? The FTC should block this deal as it is not going to be good for consumers.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
scarface74 7y ago
Almost every VC backed startup’s goal is to get acquired. Any company that wanted to acquire it would still be considered “anti-trust” by HN “standards”.
- nojvek 7y ago
  I think this statement ^ is very generic. Google acquiring Credit Karma would have been okay-ish. Intuit acquiring gives them a monopoly on tax filing software. They’ve already done a fair amount of lobbying for anti-consumer practices. Basically if America is just a bunch of really large corporations, it makes life worse and doesn’t let us produce more innovative solutions to our problems. Because monopolies are rent seekers and they love to milk their cash cows.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    There are only two outcomes of Google acquiring CreditKarma and neither of them are good. A) Google shuts it down or neglects it like it has done with so many other products B) Google now has more information on users to target advertising and now has an even larger part of the duopoly on advertising and has more information about users - including social security numbers and credit information. I don’t see how either is a good outcome.
    - nojvek 7y ago
      Okay Google was a terrible example since they are a targeted advertising duopoly with FB.
7y ago

yalogin 7y ago

Genuine question - what do they do? I thought they just offer credit checking and monitoring services that look scammy a little bit. Didn’t realize there is so much money in this, no wonder we see so many of these pop up.

anderspitman 7y ago
Like every other "free" financial product, they try to manipulate people into consumer debt. Oh and selling your data as a side hussle.
- scarface74 7y ago
  They sell access to you. They don’t sell your data.
  - soared 7y ago
    Technically that is the same thing google and Facebook do.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Exactly. I’m not trying to be pedantic, but it’s important to be clear about the issue before you start proposing solutions. If the government passed a law tomorrow saying that companies couldn’t share user data with third parties, it wouldn’t change anything about Facebook, Google’s or Credit Karma’s business model. Not that I’m saying we need government intervention.
- beager 7y ago
  “If the service is free, you’re the product”

sergiotapia 7y ago

God dammit we need reform to make tax preparation companies extinct. Why is something mandatory so complicated?

scrooched_moose 7y ago

Well crap. Time to file my taxes for this year and cancel my account. This is the reason I won't sign up for any new startup ever - it seems that eventually they all get acquired by one of the old guard behemoths anyway. No matter how virtuous and privacy focused they are, that all gets destroyed when someone buys them.

propogandist 7y ago
CreditKarma was far from privacy focused, their T&C + Privacy policy gave them lots of grounds to mine and sell user data. Personal income information about users is generally 3rd party estimates for ads/marketing industry, but by offering a free Tax service, CK was able gather information on actual income about users, which is extremely valuable data. This would be very lucrative for data-brokers or sold as targetable and proprietary 'audience data', which can be combined with other data-sources to support marketing activities.
- scrooched_moose 7y ago
  They may not have been perfect (and I was aware of their policy), but there's no scenario I can see where Intuit won't be dramatically worse.
  - perplex 7y ago
    I use hrblock online for taxes and at least there you can opt out of information mining.
- scarface74 7y ago
  The whole idea that companies like Facebook, Google or Credit Karma “sell user data” is a misnomer. Companies don’t sell user data, they sell access to you based on the data they have. The distinction is important. They don’t give third parties a list of users that meet a certain criteria, companies tell them that they want to advertise to users who meet a certain criteria. User data is far too important to sell.

kull 7y ago

Any good credit karma alternatives? Seems we must switch.

miked85 7y ago
Both WalletHub and Credit Sesame are comparable.

vsskanth 7y ago

What's the biggest blocker to making an OSS GPL tax prep software for the US market ?

Ididntdothis 7y ago
The tax code with federal, state and so on is extremely complex and you also have a hard deadline every year . Hard to do this with volunteers. The IRS already has an implementation of the tax code. It would be great if they open sourced it as public service.
jedberg 7y ago
The tax code is very complex. It takes a legion of programmers (most of whom also have tax accounting and/or tax law training) just to translate the tax code into computer code. You're unlikely to find enough volunteers to maintain that. Also, TurboTax is an entity you can sue if they get it wrong and you get audited because of the error. An OSS project would be a magic black box. I wouldn't use an OSS tax prep software because I have no way of knowing if it's correct, nor is there anyone to take responsibility if it isn't.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Apparently the IRS was almost done finishing the mainframe to Java conversion of one of their modules and the programmer’s (a PRC national) contract which his visa was tied to expired
  - iudqnolq 7y ago
    That sounds fascinating. Do you have a link or some more specific keywords I could search? I would like to learn more about that.
    - bobbiechen 7y ago
      Looks like this is the story [1], though it seems the reason is actually some kind of funding-related issue: Wang was working under streamlined critical pay authority the agency has had since its landmark 1998 restructuring. It gave the IRS 40 slots under which it could pay temporary, full-time employees higher than GS rates. Former Commissioner John Koskinen pointed out Congress did not re-up this authority in 2013, despite his entreaties to former Congressman Jason Chaffetz’s Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. “The last one ran out this past summer,” Koskinen said. The departures included Wang. He says he applied to become a GS-15 or Senior Executive Service member so he could see through the assembler-to-Java project. But his approval didn’t come through until a week before his employment authority expired. By then he’d accepted another job. Wang says he had a house to pay for, kids to educate. Koskinen confirms the agency wanted to convert Wang. But the process of approval from Treasury headquarters and the Office of Personnel Management simply took too long. And here's a follow-up from this year [2] which also describes the patent that came out of that work [3]. [1] https://federalnewsnetwork.com/tom-temin-commentary/2018/01/irs-clutches-its-modernization-holy-grail/ https://federalnewsnetwork.com/tom-temin-commentary/2018/01/... [2] https://federalnewsnetwork.com/tom-temin-commentary/2020/01/irs-programming-mystery-continues/ https://federalnewsnetwork.com/tom-temin-commentary/2020/01/... [3] https://federalnewsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/IRS-patent-10_2019.pdf https://federalnewsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/IR...

excerionsforte 7y ago

My first reaction is NOOOOOOOO. I first used Credit Karma in college, which made me aware of my credit score. Credit Karma had a credit simulator at that time, which I would play around with to see what was the best course of action to get my score up up in a very short amount of time. I got to where I want and will maintain it. Credit Karma's tax solution is the best I have ever used for my case! I still use Mint, but it is in maintenance mode. I can only hope that the CK's tax solution stays intact in not a transition to TurboTax. The for-profit tax companies already screwed up with the IRS revamping the agreement, so as to compete with them: https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-is-still-tricking-customers-with-tax-prep-ads-that-misuse-the-word-free https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-is-still-trickin.... I hope the government will take good advantage of this opportunity.

scarface74 7y ago
I use Credit Karma but the “Fako Credit Score” has little to do with the credit score lenders use.
- excerionsforte 7y ago
  Well one landlord asked for a printout of the Credit Report and Credit Karma was cited as one source of report. :) Credit Score is applicable to many places. Their Credit Alerts feature did alert my to fraudulent activity almost immediately At this point if CK had offered a subscription side, I would have bought in.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    They were being cheap. I was a landlord at one point. It’s about $30 to use a tenant screening service and you charge that as an “application fee”.
    - excerionsforte 7y ago
      Ey, I won't complain about what a landlord requires if it don't cost me anything and they get the information they need to rent me a place. :)

jimbob45 7y ago

Practical question: where else can I check my credit score for free?

intopieces 7y ago
All my credit cards offer this now.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  They offer your score(s), but they don’t offer you information about your trade lines or specific information about those trade lines when changes occur.
astura 7y ago
Credit Sesame and https://www.freecreditscore.com/ https://www.freecreditscore.com/ (used to be a sketchy site but its now owned by Experian) And others: https://www.doctorofcredit.com/whats-best-cheapest-way-monitor-credit/ https://www.doctorofcredit.com/whats-best-cheapest-way-monit...
shmerl 7y ago
Some banks now offer this for free.

s3graham 7y ago

I was sort-of glad that Wealthsimple bought SimpleTax (Canada) before Intuit had a chance to swallow them. Hopefully that one works out.

____hacker____ 7y ago

Bye credit karma. Consumers will make this deal another verizon tumbler.

neonate 7y ago

https://archive.md/no4r5 https://archive.md/no4r5

lancewiggs 7y ago

They acquired Mint years ago on the premise that a free consumer app selling financial products would make a great return. That didn’t work. This smells similar, with a dose of consolidation of the tax software market. (Pocketsmith investor)

sp527 7y ago
Were they not able to monetize it? I know Mint upsells and has some ads, but was under the impression that the real value was in the data.

rayhendricks 7y ago

Intuit and TurboTax are responsible for needlessly wasting Americans time by making us reenter our tax information. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/316967/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article... so yeah it’s pretty awful. Kredit Karma tax filing software is actually really good though, so I do not see a reason for them to keep it around though.

leetcrew 7y ago
I don't find the credit karma tax UX to be quite as good as TurboTax, although I very happily used it this year because it's free. I suspect Intuit will not maintain a free alternative to one of their main products :/

camel_gopher 7y ago

Bye bye credit karma

shmerl 7y ago

Too bad. A solid reason not to touch Credit Karma ever again.

jitendrac 7y ago

I am not from US,but I think It deserves Anti-trust scrutiny.

bryanmgreen 7y ago

The question I'd like to ask any company that has a mission and compromises it in a controlling-stake sale is: "What justified you selling-out or was your mission just a ploy?" $7B is no small change, but I bet they could have come up with another scenario that would have allowed them to make still substantive and life-altering sums of money without compromising.

mcrae 7y ago
Jeez man their mission wasn’t to solve world hunger or bring peace to the Middle East. It was a credit app that refered people to credit products. They sold to a financial company. Seems pretty consistent.
- bryanmgreen 7y ago
  I'm not judging (at least not really in this scenario because, yeah, they're not doing world-altering stuff), just scientifically wondering where a line might be and why it would be put there in the first place.

brianTheDog 7y ago

They spends a bunch of money making taxes harder so we depend on them. Then they buy out all their competitors. Intuit is a shit company. The government needs to step in and break that up.