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It’s interesting that it’s been common to see this exact same opinion (a lack of conscientiousness on the part of students) expressed in Germany about German ed

It’s interesting that it’s been common to see this exact same opinion (a lack of conscientiousness on the part of students) expressed in Germany about German education over the past 10+ years yet you cite German students as a good example. In Germany it’s commonly stated that things were better previously and that there’s a ongoing decline. My understanding in the German case is that it’s not supported in any measures of student attainment - grades, earnings after 10 years etc.

radiator 7y ago
It is not necessarily a contradiction, it is possible that German education is now clearly worse than 10 or 20 years ago, but still not as bad as the current situation in grandparent's country.
- sitkack 7y ago
  Perhaps all are true as you said, and that this is civilization's path towards always using the calculator for any calculation and uncritically trusting the output.
- golem14 7y ago
  I think it’s regression to the mean. Parents with lots of education see their kids struggling and don’t understand that they themselves were positive outliers back then.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    Also that rich kids think riches come for free. Boondocks to boardroom in 3 generations, and three generations back. Rags to riches to rags. Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves. Clogs to clogs. Rice fields to Rice fields.
firethief 7y ago
> It’s interesting that it’s been common to see this exact same opinion (a lack of conscientiousness on the part of students) expressed in Germany about German education over the past 10+ years yet you cite German students as a good example. That fits the Dunning-Kruger effect. They are better than others at what they've been paying attention to improving. Not sure how to square that with their perception of decline though; maybe others who haven't been paying attention to the issue have declined worse, or just started out worse.
lonelappde 7y ago
It's well known around the world for quite a long time that kids today are lazy and stupid unlike their parents.
deleted 7y ago
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radiator 7y ago

It is not necessarily a contradiction, it is possible that German education is now clearly worse than 10 or 20 years ago, but still not as bad as the current situation in grandparent's country.

sitkack 7y ago
Perhaps all are true as you said, and that this is civilization's path towards always using the calculator for any calculation and uncritically trusting the output.
golem14 7y ago
I think it’s regression to the mean. Parents with lots of education see their kids struggling and don’t understand that they themselves were positive outliers back then.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Also that rich kids think riches come for free. Boondocks to boardroom in 3 generations, and three generations back. Rags to riches to rags. Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves. Clogs to clogs. Rice fields to Rice fields.

firethief 7y ago

> It’s interesting that it’s been common to see this exact same opinion (a lack of conscientiousness on the part of students) expressed in Germany about German education over the past 10+ years yet you cite German students as a good example. That fits the Dunning-Kruger effect. They are better than others at what they've been paying attention to improving. Not sure how to square that with their perception of decline though; maybe others who haven't been paying attention to the issue have declined worse, or just started out worse.

lonelappde 7y ago

It's well known around the world for quite a long time that kids today are lazy and stupid unlike their parents.

deleted 7y ago

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