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Despite this being an extremely serious statement and should be considered as such, I feel this is also like stating the obvious. Like isn't this something ever

Despite this being an extremely serious statement and should be considered as such, I feel this is also like stating the obvious. Like isn't this something everyone is fully aware of, despite the human race as a whole not doing anywhere near enough to combat it? I'd like to hear less statements of "our house is on fire" and more "I'm getting a bucket of water". Let's concentrate on the doing...

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
> Like isn't this something everyone is fully aware of The only way someone could not - is if the messaging was so over the top and such doomsday that it turned people off of taking it seriously. I hope we don’t get there!
- busymom0 7y ago
  We are already there. Look at the headline of this post. That's exactly what the doomsday fear mongering is.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    You wish.
    - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
      I don't get it. Why would anyone wish that?
  - TheRealSteel 7y ago
    No, it's the truth, and if anything it's an understatement.
  - polotics 7y ago
    At any step of our descent from now on and for between one to two centuries, any fully accurate predictions on the state of the climate system twenty year hence will be seen as doomsday fear mongering by many. However doom is never evenly distributed, unless you were in a few select Australian, Californian or African places this year, you missed it. In order to confirm or deny the statements above you need to invest about ten hours of your time to get to the facts. The IPCC report's Working Group One output is a good start.
    - busymom0 7y ago
      > you need to invest about ten hours of your time to get to the facts Your comment seems condescending assuming I haven't researched this field. I have invested hundreds of hours. I have reviewed several IPCC report, have downloaded raw data and plotted it etc. A lot of the things being stated are blatant lies and easily disproven. It has been going on since 1970s. Here's letters to the President back in 1972 claiming we are approaching an Ice Age, not warming: https://i.imgur.com/Nd57TtC.png https://i.imgur.com/Nd57TtC.png The source of that letter is NOAA itself. They have since removed the page but internet never forgets: https://web.archive.org/web/20081022084215/http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/outreach/proceedings/cdw29_proceedings/Reeves.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20081022084215/http://www.cpc.no... After the wide consensus from scientists in 1972 of an "ice age" within 5 years in 1977, they suddenly started "global warming". ----- Since you state Australia, I will guess you are referring to the fired from last year which media reported as the worst on record and 60 minutes did a segment with the same. They even had Michael Mann on who declared it the worst bushfire on record. But that's easily disproven. The 1974-75 is the worst bushfire. Here are 3 different sources: https://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/6C98BB75496A5AD1CA2569DE00267E48 https://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/6C98BB75496A5AD1C... https://knowledge.aidr.org.au/resources/bushfire-new-south-wales-1974/ https://knowledge.aidr.org.au/resources/bushfire-new-south-w... > In 1974-75, lush growth of grasses and forbs following exceptionally heavy rainfall in the previous two years provided continuous fuels through much of central Australia and in this season fires burnt over 117 million hectares or 15 per cent of the total land area of this continent. As they state, 15% of the total land was on fire and 117 million hectares were burnt. The 2019 fire is only 18 hectares. ----- Timothy Wirth, President of UN for 15 years and the senator who brought in Dr James Hansen (Director of NASA Goddard Institute for 35 years) back in 1988 which led to the formation of the IPCC is on record on how he sabotaged the air-conditioner the night before the testimony and also called the Weather Network to know when the hottest day would be to setup the testimony on that day: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hotpolitics/interviews/wirth.html https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hotpolitics/intervi... The same Timothy Wirth is also on record from Rio Climate Summit: > “We have got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic policy and environmental policy.” Archived from The National Center for Public Policy Research: https://web.archive.org/web/20160304113733/https://nationalcenter.org/dos7130.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20160304113733/https://nationalc... ----- If you dig a bit deep into the data and IPCC reports you will notice that their "2016 is the warmest year on record" is a blatant lie too.
vzidex 7y ago
I think you'd be surprised - I don't have any numbers off the top of my head, but at my work there are at least 1 or two people on my team who don't believe in climate change, don't believe it's caused by humans, or don't believe it'll do anything bad. And I work with fairly educated people! My team is all engineering, ranging from undergrad to Ph.Ds
- etaioinshrdlu 7y ago
  I too know a couple STEM PhD's who believe climate change is a hoax, possibly invented by the Chinese. To get the US to destroy their economy. Yes, these people are out there.
  - Sharlin 7y ago
    It’s sad how often it’s STEM people specifically who equate ”I know a lot about my field” to ”I know a lot about unrelated fields as well”.
    - LiquidSky 7y ago
      It's the fuel on which Hacker News runs.
      - animalnewbie 7y ago
        Touche
- cagenut 7y ago
  There are also probably one or two people who believe in some religion. There are also probably one or two people who believe in healing energy or homeopathy. Or antivax or whatever, it doesn't matter. It is a false standard to hold climate change to that we have to wait until we've convinced everyone. The problem right now is not convincing the last 20 odd percent of people its real, the problem is getting the 50 - 70% of people who believe its real to act. We already have a "belief" majority, we need an "action" one. Continuing to point to the non-believers as an excuse to accept or assume the status quo is even dumber than pointing at smokers and saying "we can't ban it from restaurants because they'll never change their minds". Climate change "skeptics" and deniers do not get a veto on the future. "Centrists" who use them as an excuse are not fooling anyone anymore.
zajd 7y ago
> I feel this is also like stating the obvious Reminder that the President of the United States thinks climate change is a hoax
lvs 7y ago
This kind of thing sadly becomes necessary because of comment sections full of contrarians and devil's advocates -- and their real life equivalents. This site is a breeding ground for this class of do-nothing discourse, but it faithfully reflects executive opinions on the matter.
LiquidSky 7y ago
>Like isn't this something everyone is fully aware of, despite the human race as a whole not doing anywhere near enough to combat it? No, at least not in the US. Until very recently the Republican Party and the business community at large denied it was even happening. The current President of the United States is on-record calling it a "Chinese hoax", and has spent his term in office tearing apart as many environmental regulations as he can. There is an entire segment of the US populace that follows this exact line, that either climate change is a lie or it's nothing to worry about. That's a very large part of why "the human race as a whole not doing anywhere near enough to combat it", that a good chunk of the leadership and the rich in the world's largest economy and most influential nation are devoted to denying or downplaying the problem.
totalZero 7y ago
The fundamental problem with your logic is that people don't act to put out a fire until it has already become obviously imminent. Ice is melting, wildfires are ravaging vast swaths of land, rainfall is wanting....but individual people don't generally suffer the effects of these things as they go about their daily lives. People won't get up and go get a bucket until you first convince them that their inaction will lead to catastrophic fire damage. Fire burns. Smoke suffocates. But climate change, despite being less reversible, is not so readily identifiable.

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago

> Like isn't this something everyone is fully aware of The only way someone could not - is if the messaging was so over the top and such doomsday that it turned people off of taking it seriously. I hope we don’t get there!

busymom0 7y ago
We are already there. Look at the headline of this post. That's exactly what the doomsday fear mongering is.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  You wish.
  - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
    I don't get it. Why would anyone wish that?
- TheRealSteel 7y ago
  No, it's the truth, and if anything it's an understatement.
- polotics 7y ago
  At any step of our descent from now on and for between one to two centuries, any fully accurate predictions on the state of the climate system twenty year hence will be seen as doomsday fear mongering by many. However doom is never evenly distributed, unless you were in a few select Australian, Californian or African places this year, you missed it. In order to confirm or deny the statements above you need to invest about ten hours of your time to get to the facts. The IPCC report's Working Group One output is a good start.
  - busymom0 7y ago
    > you need to invest about ten hours of your time to get to the facts Your comment seems condescending assuming I haven't researched this field. I have invested hundreds of hours. I have reviewed several IPCC report, have downloaded raw data and plotted it etc. A lot of the things being stated are blatant lies and easily disproven. It has been going on since 1970s. Here's letters to the President back in 1972 claiming we are approaching an Ice Age, not warming: https://i.imgur.com/Nd57TtC.png https://i.imgur.com/Nd57TtC.png The source of that letter is NOAA itself. They have since removed the page but internet never forgets: https://web.archive.org/web/20081022084215/http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/outreach/proceedings/cdw29_proceedings/Reeves.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20081022084215/http://www.cpc.no... After the wide consensus from scientists in 1972 of an "ice age" within 5 years in 1977, they suddenly started "global warming". ----- Since you state Australia, I will guess you are referring to the fired from last year which media reported as the worst on record and 60 minutes did a segment with the same. They even had Michael Mann on who declared it the worst bushfire on record. But that's easily disproven. The 1974-75 is the worst bushfire. Here are 3 different sources: https://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/6C98BB75496A5AD1CA2569DE00267E48 https://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/6C98BB75496A5AD1C... https://knowledge.aidr.org.au/resources/bushfire-new-south-wales-1974/ https://knowledge.aidr.org.au/resources/bushfire-new-south-w... > In 1974-75, lush growth of grasses and forbs following exceptionally heavy rainfall in the previous two years provided continuous fuels through much of central Australia and in this season fires burnt over 117 million hectares or 15 per cent of the total land area of this continent. As they state, 15% of the total land was on fire and 117 million hectares were burnt. The 2019 fire is only 18 hectares. ----- Timothy Wirth, President of UN for 15 years and the senator who brought in Dr James Hansen (Director of NASA Goddard Institute for 35 years) back in 1988 which led to the formation of the IPCC is on record on how he sabotaged the air-conditioner the night before the testimony and also called the Weather Network to know when the hottest day would be to setup the testimony on that day: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hotpolitics/interviews/wirth.html https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hotpolitics/intervi... The same Timothy Wirth is also on record from Rio Climate Summit: > “We have got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic policy and environmental policy.” Archived from The National Center for Public Policy Research: https://web.archive.org/web/20160304113733/https://nationalcenter.org/dos7130.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20160304113733/https://nationalc... ----- If you dig a bit deep into the data and IPCC reports you will notice that their "2016 is the warmest year on record" is a blatant lie too.

vzidex 7y ago

I think you'd be surprised - I don't have any numbers off the top of my head, but at my work there are at least 1 or two people on my team who don't believe in climate change, don't believe it's caused by humans, or don't believe it'll do anything bad. And I work with fairly educated people! My team is all engineering, ranging from undergrad to Ph.Ds

etaioinshrdlu 7y ago
I too know a couple STEM PhD's who believe climate change is a hoax, possibly invented by the Chinese. To get the US to destroy their economy. Yes, these people are out there.
- Sharlin 7y ago
  It’s sad how often it’s STEM people specifically who equate ”I know a lot about my field” to ”I know a lot about unrelated fields as well”.
  - LiquidSky 7y ago
    It's the fuel on which Hacker News runs.
    - animalnewbie 7y ago
      Touche
cagenut 7y ago
There are also probably one or two people who believe in some religion. There are also probably one or two people who believe in healing energy or homeopathy. Or antivax or whatever, it doesn't matter. It is a false standard to hold climate change to that we have to wait until we've convinced everyone. The problem right now is not convincing the last 20 odd percent of people its real, the problem is getting the 50 - 70% of people who believe its real to act. We already have a "belief" majority, we need an "action" one. Continuing to point to the non-believers as an excuse to accept or assume the status quo is even dumber than pointing at smokers and saying "we can't ban it from restaurants because they'll never change their minds". Climate change "skeptics" and deniers do not get a veto on the future. "Centrists" who use them as an excuse are not fooling anyone anymore.

zajd 7y ago

> I feel this is also like stating the obvious Reminder that the President of the United States thinks climate change is a hoax

lvs 7y ago

This kind of thing sadly becomes necessary because of comment sections full of contrarians and devil's advocates -- and their real life equivalents. This site is a breeding ground for this class of do-nothing discourse, but it faithfully reflects executive opinions on the matter.

LiquidSky 7y ago

>Like isn't this something everyone is fully aware of, despite the human race as a whole not doing anywhere near enough to combat it? No, at least not in the US. Until very recently the Republican Party and the business community at large denied it was even happening. The current President of the United States is on-record calling it a "Chinese hoax", and has spent his term in office tearing apart as many environmental regulations as he can. There is an entire segment of the US populace that follows this exact line, that either climate change is a lie or it's nothing to worry about. That's a very large part of why "the human race as a whole not doing anywhere near enough to combat it", that a good chunk of the leadership and the rich in the world's largest economy and most influential nation are devoted to denying or downplaying the problem.

totalZero 7y ago

The fundamental problem with your logic is that people don't act to put out a fire until it has already become obviously imminent. Ice is melting, wildfires are ravaging vast swaths of land, rainfall is wanting....but individual people don't generally suffer the effects of these things as they go about their daily lives. People won't get up and go get a bucket until you first convince them that their inaction will lead to catastrophic fire damage. Fire burns. Smoke suffocates. But climate change, despite being less reversible, is not so readily identifiable.