8 ms·

Windows 10 could start bullying people into using a Microsoft account to install

138 points by fraqed 7y ago

KwanEsq 7y ago
"Start"? It's been making it a struggle to do so for a while.
giancarlostoro 7y ago
I mean people are bullied into hooking up Google Chrome with their gmail, and then their entire web history is "backed up" on Google's servers. At least Firefox's Sync features have been end to end encrypted, you lose your password, you lose your files / history. If you log into a gmail account it would force it on Chrome in the past, so I stopped using gmail on Chrome altogether.
jtdev 7y ago
Stop using Windows.
- dontdoitpls 7y ago
  What's your desktop alternative?
  - zeveb 7y ago
    I have been happily using Linux on my desktop for over twenty years. It hasn't always been easy, but it has worked quite well for me and it could for others too.
    - mirages 7y ago
      Not for everybody unfortunately. If you want a gaming PC playing most recent games you have no choices but to remain on Windows.
    - NikolaeVarius 7y ago
      Shame that CAD software is a dumpster fire on Linux.
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    macOS?
    - dontdoitpls 7y ago
      I'm too ethical to give money to Apple.
raxxorrax 7y ago
Windows 10 is a total catastrophe for business and private use. It established ads and spying as normal for an OS, it removed abilities to administrate the OS in a meaningful way and mostly ignored users in favor of nudging people to their products. Products that I would declare to be mostly in beta phase. The bi-annual untargeted channel version couldn't sort desktop symbols without bugs if you had multiple monitors attached till a few month ago. And before anyone mentions that "normal people" like it and it is just the icky nerds that have reservations: Not in my experience. They hate MS spying on them too. It is just that there is often a lack of an alternative if they are caught up in the ecosystem. I wonder how people even manage if they don't have some friends and family to help them get rid of the bad stuff. There are underlying improvements, but what use is a safer system if the malware comes preinstalled.
- dgellow 7y ago
  > it removed abilities to administrate the OS in a meaningful way What do you mean by that? I moved last year from macOS to Windows 10 for my personal machine, and I don't see what administrative features I could be missing.
  - raxxorrax 7y ago
    For example pretty much everything regarding update settings. You get mandatory diagnostic information in exchange. Really bad deal.
    - dgellow 7y ago
      For updates, I guess you mean the fact that you cannot block them completely. Or do you mean something else? So that would be the only difference. For the vast majority of people, how does that have an impact? People get their security updates that they otherwise don’t install. Seems to be an ok-ish trade off IMHO. My main frustration is the automatic reboot, but I’ve seen this behavior since at least windows 7.
- m_fayer 7y ago
  For anyone looking at my HN history, apologies for being a broken record. For the elderly variety of normal people this is a disaster: All the behind-the-scenes UX and setting flipping, the forced installs, and the performance dips that comes with all this means that low-confidence users feel like they're working on quicksand. The experience becomes unpredictable and scary and the iPad gets more and more use and the PC gathers dust. I don't get why this all is worth the cost of squandering the good will MS has built up elsewhere.
AsusFan 7y ago
Start? You already have to disconnect form the network to be able to use the "offline account" option in the installer (last I checked, which was like a couple of months ago). So this has been going on for a while. Edit (merge the other comment I deleted): To clarify, this was a Home Edition. I understand that the Pro edition doesn't behave this way.
- NikolaeVarius 7y ago
  No you don't : source just set up a dozen win10 PCs
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - zrobotics 7y ago
    Neither you or your parent is incorrect; this behavior is variable. I setup 8 new win10 boxes last week, 2 of them (HP, the others were Dell) required pulling a lan cable to get to the local account setup. I didn't have time to check details to see what was different (I'm not really IT, but small company/many hats) but the local account option didn't appear until the internet was disconnected.
    - thedaemon 7y ago
      Windows 10 Pro, I've installed it about 40 times or more. Domain Join is the option to create a local account. It works, I do it every install, while connected to network.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  No, you don’t. Local installs are the smallest option on the screen, but they’re still an option.
  - beart 7y ago
    Installed Windows 10 Home a few weeks, poked around for 5 minutes searching for an offline option until I gave up. I know it used to be there but they have removed it.
userbinator 7y ago
It's not explicitly mentioned in the article, but the fact that presumably installing from the same disc will somehow produce different behaviour at different times (is it phoning home during the install, to decide what to do?) is rather disturbing.
awicz 7y ago
They've already started. We've been replacing Dell laptops at work these past couple months and it was nearly impossible to fully boot Windows without signing in via a Microsoft account. The whole process just felt ridiculous, especially on a computer clearly intended for a business.
- philliphaydon 7y ago
  When my work computer just used a MS account I had 0 issues, when i was forced to put it on the domain and have an AD account etc I have had nothing but issues. Intrusive sys-admins are more annoying these days trying to control and lock things down in a more connected world.
  - UI_at_80x24 7y ago
    >Intrusive sys-admins are more annoying these days trying to control and lock things down in a more connected world. How about trying to stop a raging forest-fire and the primary tool you are supposed to use is a squirt gun? The backend that we have to work with was designed around the concept of "1 network, X users" and the biggest threat was a boot-sector virus that formatted your hard-drive after silently replicating itself to every machine. Now you need security in layers, because even if every god-damned employee was as smart as Tim Berners-Lee and didn't open every email attachment, drive-by downloads; 0-day browser exploits that give access to ring0 coupled with an OS that releases updates that are more likely to bjork your computer then actually solve the fucking problem these computers are sitting fucking ducks. And because we are seen as "Intrusive" we can't even get the C-level assholes to listen to us, or to follow the rules that they see are necessary for everybody else. The environment has grown so hostile that Becky in accounting doesn't need internet access, and you are lucky we don't limit the internet to 1 terminal in the lunch room with every port disabled and filled with a hot-glue gun. Just because YOU are "smart with computers" doesn't mean your damn computer is safe. We (SysAdmins) are fighting a desperately hard battle. We get shit on by the end-users, and Upper Management. If you have 1 frustration with your PC multiply it by thousand, and try to put yourself in our shoes.
- mlrtime 7y ago
cr3ative 7y ago
The install experience is so much cleaner if you don't let it near a network.
dgellow 7y ago
What a clickbait title. That's not what the word "bullying" means. Microsoft is nudging people, maybe forcing them. But definitely not bullying...
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > Microsoft is nudging people, maybe forcing them. Right, and the bigger student in the cafeteria was just nudging people, sometimes forcing them, to give up their lunch money.
  - dgellow 7y ago
    Why do see a need to conflate both things? Microsoft forcing users to use an online account is already quite bad. No need to change the definition of what bullying is to communicate that message.
    - thaumasiotes 7y ago
      It's not a change. That's what bullying already meant. What does "bullying" mean to you?
      - dgellow 7y ago
        Some excerpts from Wikipedia definition, that I find accurate: > Bullying is the use of force, coercion, or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. > Bullying is the activity of repeated, aggressive behavior intended to hurt another individual, physically, mentally, or emotionally. Don’t you see a difference between an actual abuse, and the use of a UX dark pattern to get users to create/use online accounts?
        thaumasiotes 7y ago
        In the first place, I consider removing local accounts to be an actual abuse. But in the second place, "bullying" is not restricted to "actual abuses", however defined. Bullying refers to an attitude, the attitude of shoving someone around because you can. The reverse of "bullying" is "caving in", not "being victimized". Here are some cites I pulled from COCA: > What are the keys to the match for Halep? It sounds trite, but Halep needs to stay aggressive -- as she was in the semis -- and not let Serena bully her around the court. > Can someone please explain to me why Magic Johnson and other executives have been fined by the NBA for just a simple comment on another player, but yet, Kawhi Leonard can actively and outwardly recruit an under-contract player and persuade him to bully his way out of that contract? > Just look at what China's trying to do. They're trying to bully us, hold our farmers hostage. > the Trump administration has proposed eliminating a lot of the legal enforcement protections that are in the agreement that are particularly important for Canada and Mexico especially because they're smaller economies, smaller countries, much more reliant on the U.S. market. They can't really bully their way around to getting things that they want when things don't go their way These four cites describe three different scenarios, but not one of them could be considered to match what you claim is the definition of bullying.
teh_klev 7y ago
I'm based in the UK. This has been going on for a good while outside the US. Back in mid November last year I struggled to get past the requirement to create an online account when rebuilding a friend's laptop after a hard disk failure. I scratched my head for a good bit thinking that I'd missed the old pathway that let you skip the online account step, but it turned out that the installer's behaviour had actually been altered. After some more dome scratching I eventually discovering that disabling the built-in wifi module (no wired LAN connection was made) caused the installer to let me create a local account instead. Quite bloody annoying. Footnote: this was an install from a bootable USB stick where I'd "burned" the full Windows 10 ISO image.
agumonkey 7y ago
Good luck to their marketing and sales team. It's gonna be a fun game to convince people to do so when you have perfectly equivalent and usable, totally free, and now cute open source OS/distros. People started to sell TAILS on usb keys for $10, if someone packs Linux Mint, eOS or similar for $5 .. in a web app world, linux + firefox is probably invisible to the average user.
have_faith 7y ago
Just as bad is forcing you to set up a pin number on top of your password in order to log in. It wouldn't let me not pick a pin during a recent installation so I had to set one up, finish installing and then remove it in the settings somewhere. Very odd. I don't even mind it being offered as an option, maybe some people prefer an alphanumeric pin...
cm2187 7y ago
Surely not the enterprise and server version?
wayneftw 7y ago
Which distribution of Windows 10? I'm thinking it's only the Home version. I just setup Windows 10 Pro for my brother in-law yesterday and had no problem choosing a local account.
Izkata 7y ago
They're already there. The ThinkPad I bought in December didn't have the local account option available. It's currently in "trick the user" mode: it has you connect to wifi to download the latest security updates, then remembers the network and automatically tries to have you create an account a step or two later. I avoided it by rebooting, going into the bios, disabling wifi, and then resuming setup - only when it couldn't connect would it allow a local account. Just rebooting to restart initial setup doesn't work, it remembers the network.
- karrotwaltz 7y ago
  I reinstalled a computer about a month ago, same thing but I didn't have to mess with BIOS settings, going back 2 steps and disconnecting the wifi worked.
  - Izkata 7y ago
    I didn't have any way to go back, and rebooting skipped the network connection part of the setup because it was already connected.
- scandinavegan 7y ago
  I bought two different laptops in January and installed Windows 10. I managed to reach the local account option by entering a Gmail address without a connected Microsoft account when it first asked me to log in during initial setup. At the failure page they added a local account button that wasn't on the previous screen so that I could set up a local offline account. It still keeps nagging with a notification saying that my Windows installation is not fully secure since I haven't added a Microsoft account. I've disabled that notification, but it may have disabled all notifications from the settings part of Windows, I'm not sure.
  - zrobotics 7y ago
    This is odd, considering it's a Microsoft device, but the Surface Pro I bought in January had a local account option available, and I connected to the update servers before creating my local account. However, around the same time I accidentally converted the local account on my gaming desktop into a Msft account when signing into 365 to setup onedrive. I didn't realize I was doing that until my account photo on the login screen changed. I can still login to the PC with my old password (Msft account p/w is the typical 20 char random string from my password manager). Tip- you can disable the security nag notifications in defender settings individually. There is a screen with different categories of 'threats', and you can turn on/off warnings individually. You probably don't want those notifications entirely disabled, since it is pretty useful as anti-virus, but the account and backup notifications are obnoxious.
eatonphil 7y ago
tldr; Among mainstream OSs I'm most happy with Windows today For the last few years I've been using Windows 10 rather than macOS. In general Windows seems mid-to-long-term more stable than macOS. But maybe that's because I'm used to treating macOS like a nicer Linux while they've been locking down many Linux-like abilities (kernel modules, tracing/debugging, etc). But there's also been the macOS filesystem and permissions model changes that have made upgrading a pain. I do have a Microsoft account but I don't do anything with it. I don't use any Microsoft products that are not included in the base install. I tried Hyper-V for a while but it was painful to configure so I've been using VMWare with more success. Generally speaking, it seems like Microsoft is looking further than a year from now -- getting design and quality right compared to macOS which no longer seems to have any particular direction. It's not just in their software; I've been seriously impressed by build quality and pricing on the Surface line of tablets and laptops. I actually mistook a Surface book for a 2015 macbook pro. In contrast, I really don't want to gamble with post-2015 Apple hardware. And although I do a lot of development on my laptop, I'm trying to move to developing in the cloud or a home-server because compiling kills my battery. Windows enables this use-case fine. To be fair, macOS would too. I haven't had any issues with unwanted ads. The only ads I'm aware of are the lock-screen backgrounds that show different places around the world... I don't really consider them an ad though.
- geohuz 7y ago
  "In general Windows seems mid-to-long-term more stable than macOS" It really seems like you are talking a joke?
kop316 7y ago
What makes it worse is when their account set up is broken. For an interview yesterday, I attempted to install and get an account for Skype. The back end broke, and when I tried to do create a general Microsoft account to confirm it was the back end, I was banned from using my email because of "suspicious activity". To make it more fun, their "Technical Support" chat failed as well, so I was unable to get a human to even talk through this. That would be even worse if that prevented me from installing or using Windows.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  Still have the same problem with my private account. Exactly the same reasoning. Wanted to just delete the account after that, but I would need to login and they ask for my telephone number which they certainly will not get. Well, they already have it on my business account but that is beside the point. Tried contacting support, but you need an account... even wrote a fan mail to SNadella@microsoft.com (spoiler: no response). They would be legally obliged to delete my account, but at some point I had the revelation that any minute spending thoughts on them is a wasted minute of life.
Priem19 7y ago
https://xubuntu.org https://xubuntu.org, you're welcome. Or use Windows 7 if you have to. Windows 10 is just malware and bloatware built around Windows 7.
- dageshi 7y ago
  I think win 7 is no longer getting patched/supported, as of January this year.
  - Silhouette 7y ago
    The relevant question is whether it's still safer than relying on Windows 10 even so. Windows 10 has had so many problems that the answer to this is not obvious. If you're not connecting your computer directly to any untrusted network and only operate behind a firewall, the security of your applications is likely to be more important for your protection than the security of Windows itself. Of course, Microsoft has engineered the market so that getting any new 7 systems is now intended to be impossible and exerted considerable influence to get people to move to 10, so which is safer is becoming a moot point.
- Priem19 7y ago
  And don't be fooled into thinking that Windows 7 is less secure because it isn't supported anymore. Windows isn't safe either way, it all depends on in how you use it. Use uBlock Origin to block ads, trackers, and other third party insidious code (preferably use uMatrix as well if you're savvy enough). Enable your firewall. Don't download files from untrustworthy sources, etc. Personally I only do financial transaction on Linux, and don't use a password manager on Windows. I actually only use Windows to play a game sporadically, or to use software that hasn't got an alternative on Linux, which is becoming quite rare.
- dontdoitpls 7y ago
  I've tried for the nth time 3 years ago to use Linux desktop (Ubuntu). It just takes Soo much effort to get things to work. Netflix and deactivate mouse acceleration(which isn't perfect) to name a few. I love ubuntu server, favorite os of all time. But Linux desktop just isn't anywhere near Windows quality.
mdszy 7y ago
Every day it seems more realistic to just install Windows 10 LTSC [0] instead of dealing with this crap. 0: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/ltsc/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/ltsc/
- Silhouette 7y ago
  AFAIK that's still not an option available to for home users or small businesses, though (unless you're willing to do illegal things to get it, I assume, but that's not a good solution to the underlying problem here).
  - mdszy 7y ago
    I haven't paid for a windows license a single time in my life and kinda forgot that people (home users, anyway) actually did.
    - Tijdreiziger 7y ago
      You indirectly pay for a Windows license every time you buy a laptop.
      - lonelappde 7y ago
        Unless you get a Clevo based laptop, right?
jedieaston 7y ago
For machines on Windows 10 Pro, click on the “Domain join instead” button during OOBE. AD joins cannot be completed during OOBE, so it falls back to asking you to create a local account.
tasogare 7y ago
Again? Some enterprises never learn. Also, on one side they get points on the developers side, but they lose more on the consumer side with those practices.
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  I simply don't care what products they do, M$ is consistently a piece-of-shit amoral company, period. An asshole kid who is kindly opening the doors to teachers and kicks smaller kids in the head just around the corner and tortures little animals after school is still a proper asshole.
dessant 7y ago
NVIDIA has also removed the possibility to set up an NVIDIA SHIELD TV without a Google account, there is no option to skip logging in during setup. The requirement for a Google account is not advertised on their site [1]. Other devices with the same Android TV version have a skip button on the Google account screen. [1] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/shield-tv/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/shield-tv/
chrisan 7y ago
Not going to lie... I setup win10 2 weeks ago and I didn't see (notice!) the local options. As I use Outlook.com/Onedrive I didn't care until I opened up my terminal and noticed my username was the first 5 letters of my email. What the hell. I don't get why they would do that instead of just using your firstname or asking you at least. or at the very least use _everything_ up till @ instead of the first 5... This irked me beyond belief and after googling a bunch of crazy ways to 'fix' this, the easiest turned out to be creating a local account 'chris', deleted my MS account, then attached the MS account to 'chris'
- PaulKeeble 7y ago
  To get it now you often have to disable all networking, if you don't do that it doesn't show up. It is that hidden now.
pkorzeniewski 7y ago
I feel like the tech in general is getting user-hostile... Everyone (websites, apps, cars, tvs, etc.) wants to track you and collect as much data as possible, websites nag you to install app on your phone, dark patterns everywhere, "smart" devices that won't work without an internet connection or become bricks after a while, smartphone manufacturers forcing you to buy new phone by making apps slower on older devices, more closed protocols and walled gardens - the list goes on and on...
- trevyn 7y ago
  Time to get out of tech and into starting the next revolution? We’re not “tech people”, we’re just early adopters. :)
- kgwxd 7y ago
  I'm starting to think all the crazy libre software people are on to something.
  - tcd 7y ago
    They're not "crazy", which is pretty disrespectful. Anyone paying attention has seen the writing on the wall for a while. Snowden just confirmed what they've been saying all along. Data is the new arms race, those who collect the most have the most to gain, especially financially where data is being a core asset to a business. Dumb is going to be the new gold, at least for those "crazies" you speak of.
    - m4r35n357 7y ago
      Whoosh!
    - Moru 7y ago
      That post was reeking of sarcasm even if it was hidden well :-)
- chooseaname 7y ago
  > I feel like the tech in general is getting user-hostile... Of course it is. How else can tech sustain perpetual growth without wringing every penny out of users?
jellicle 7y ago
That headline seems really bad. Windows has been in "bullying" mode for years now. Installing without a Microsoft account has been very difficult for a long time. The change now is to refuse to install at all without a Microsoft account, which is not "bullying" any more, it's something else.
rezeroed 7y ago
Bought a surface a few months ago, nice hardware, but windows 10 is horrifically spammy/scammy. Immediately replaced it with arch.
- tunap 7y ago
  Can that be done safely? As I understood it, albeit years ago, you needed certain MS services/drivers for thermal & battery management unavailable in Win 7 or Linux. The hardware & build of the early Surface Tablets was solid(still?), but I would never considered using Win 8 or 10.
  - rezeroed 7y ago
    I have a Laptop 3, not tablet, seems fine.
rb808 7y ago
Most people here don't like having a MS account, but is it really so terrible? When I log in each day I'll use my AWS account, 2 or 3 google accounts, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, Slack. You can't use a phone or a tablet without a Apple/Google account, surely having a MS account to use Windows isn't such a big deal.
- hurricanetc 7y ago
  You absolutely can use a phone or tablet without an Apple or Google account.
- zeveb 7y ago
  Bruce Schneier wrote a bit about tech feudalism seven years ago: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/12/feudal_sec.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/12/feudal_sec.ht... BTW, it is entirely possible to use a smart phone without a Google or Apple account.
- mlrtime 7y ago
  All those things are required because they're online services. You can have a phone or computer always offline, why do you need a online account?
  - tatersolid 7y ago
    How useful is a phone that is offline? What exactly do you do with it? Making phone calls is inherently an online activity.
- drngdds 7y ago
  I'd rather not tie something to an account (and therefore my identity) when I don't have to. I don't know what kind of information about my computer use they're associating with me. Windows always worked without an online account before and it's not like Windows 10 introduces must-have features that need one.
- maeln 7y ago
  > When I log in each day I'll use my AWS account, 2 or 3 google accounts, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, Slack. You can't use a phone or a tablet without a Apple/Google account, surely having a MS account to use Windows isn't such a big deal. Just because the situation is already bad doesn't mean we shouldn't complain that it continue to get worse ...
jokes9000 7y ago
debian linux. feels twice as fast as windows and there is zero concern its going to do something insidious.
speeder 7y ago
I use a mix of Windows 7 and *nix OSes both at home and work. At work we do have some Win10 machines, and they are ALWAYS doing something completely off the wall bizarre and unexpected, also doing any sort of maintenance on them is a pain, the tablet-style interface shoehorned into some places just doesn't work well. I know Win7 support is over, but we don't intend to leave it for Win10, we might leave it for Reactos or something else, but not Win10. Some examples of Win10 issues: sending tons of data to MS without permission. Not allowing us to install with local account unless we disable network on the EFI. Despite we trying everything to disable updates, the thing updates itself, reset several configurations, and reboot the machine. One of the times it did that, it broke some ancient but mandatory software on our business (it was a PDF driver that was mandatory to be used by our bank that would issue the invoice for our clients, so when this happened we were forced to install all banking software on a Win7 machien so we could get paid...). Showing ads out of the blue on Start menu and on the login screen. Installed games without permission (not Microsoft ones, I mean stuff that is popular on mobile, from king.com and whatnot). The list goes and goes on.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  Has your business looked into using Windows 10 LTSB/LTSC?
  - milankragujevic 7y ago
    Latest LTSC (Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2019) has some of the problems described.
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      It has a couple but lacks many others. You'll never have critical software break in an update on LTSC. And equally critical, on LTSC you can go down the customization route to fix the other issues, and not have your settings just get reset in an update.
- corey_moncure 7y ago
  >Despite we trying everything to disable updates, the thing updates itself, reset several configurations, and reboot the machine. I too had tried all the tricks, including using a remote Powershell into my own local machine as the System role to change ownership of the Update "Orchestrator" and disable it, etc., nothing worked and Windows finds a way to revert all the settings you make. Then I discovered an open source utility written in C# that works with Windows' own internal Windows Update API to disable its shenanigans. Search for "wumgr". You can disable the automatic updates, block access to the WU servers, and even disable the WU page in the Settings app. You can also use it to manage the updates manually and selectively if you prefer. So far it has worked flawlessly on my machines and hopefully it will work for you as well. There are many many reasons why not being in control of OS updates is a bad thing, but the absolute red line for me is having my laptop wake itself up inside of my bag while I'm traveling, potentially creating a fire hazard and certainly draining the battery life my career may be about to depend on during an important presentation, or create incompatibility issues.
jasonjayr 7y ago
FWIW, I don't see this set of steps in any of the comments here. And as of late I've been setting up tons of Dell Laptops, so I have this memorized. Windows 10 Professional, freshly minted from Dell: * "Set up for organization" * "Local account or domain join" (it's in small print in the lower left) * Create a local Admin account * Do not setup a password at this time (it'll force you to set up recovery questions or some other nonsense.) * set all the data sharing options to "no" * skip entering data for the Dell registration * On first login, hit ctrl-alt-del and set a password there. Windows Home does not offer the choice to "Setup up for organization", so you are forced to make a windows account. There's no way easy way out of it. Microsoft keeps saying "Windows is a service" and has that text somewhere in the install. I guess if you want an operating system, you have to turn to Linux.
velox_io 7y ago
They do still have the option to force local accounts only. Fire up Group Policy Editor "GPedit" then Computer Config/ admin templates/ system/ user profiles/ and enable "Only allow local user profiles". "If you enable this setting, the following occurs on the affected computer: At first logon, the user receives a new local profile, rather than the roaming profile. At logoff, changes are saved to the local profile. All subsequent logons use the local profile. " This is on Windows 10 Pro. There's a surprising number of settings that can be configured here. As Microsoft continues to dumb down menus and the control panel they are normally tucked in here. Or you may rarely have to dig into Powershell and the registry, very rarely.
ryuukk_ 7y ago
macOS's online feature aren't intrusive, so i went ahead and i enabled them (icloud) on other hand, with microsoft, it feels like they make everything possible for me to hate their products, therefore i'm not willing to use their online services it is that simple, you trynna fuck me, i won't use your shit it is similar with mozilla and their agressive marketing, the result is constant hate toward them i am a simple man
jqpabc123 7y ago
Stupid requirement that does nothing but discourage the use of other related MS services --- the ones MS actually earns money from.
ProtoAES256 7y ago
It gets even more notorious with time. I bought a new laptop recently and with Windows 10 Home instead of my Pro norm with it, and was very shocked to see how much control did I lose if were I a normal user. The mandatory and force restarting updates, web results in searches, king games, nag-ful notifications, edge self promotion, telemetry etc. I can't imagine what [profanity] that normal users had to live on with in most recent Windows. I'm waiting for the last straw that is gaming and am ready to ditch Windows completely.
TwoNineFive 7y ago
Windows 10: It's not your computer.

138 points by fraqed 7y ago

"Start"? It's been making it a struggle to do so for a while.

I mean people are bullied into hooking up Google Chrome with their gmail, and then their entire web history is "backed up" on Google's servers. At least Firefox's Sync features have been end to end encrypted, you lose your password, you lose your files / history. If you log into a gmail account it would force it on Chrome in the past, so I stopped using gmail on Chrome altogether.

jtdev 7y ago

Stop using Windows.

dontdoitpls 7y ago
What's your desktop alternative?
- zeveb 7y ago
  I have been happily using Linux on my desktop for over twenty years. It hasn't always been easy, but it has worked quite well for me and it could for others too.
  - mirages 7y ago
    Not for everybody unfortunately. If you want a gaming PC playing most recent games you have no choices but to remain on Windows.
  - NikolaeVarius 7y ago
    Shame that CAD software is a dumpster fire on Linux.
- Nextgrid 7y ago
  macOS?
  - dontdoitpls 7y ago
    I'm too ethical to give money to Apple.

raxxorrax 7y ago

Windows 10 is a total catastrophe for business and private use. It established ads and spying as normal for an OS, it removed abilities to administrate the OS in a meaningful way and mostly ignored users in favor of nudging people to their products. Products that I would declare to be mostly in beta phase. The bi-annual untargeted channel version couldn't sort desktop symbols without bugs if you had multiple monitors attached till a few month ago. And before anyone mentions that "normal people" like it and it is just the icky nerds that have reservations: Not in my experience. They hate MS spying on them too. It is just that there is often a lack of an alternative if they are caught up in the ecosystem. I wonder how people even manage if they don't have some friends and family to help them get rid of the bad stuff. There are underlying improvements, but what use is a safer system if the malware comes preinstalled.

dgellow 7y ago
> it removed abilities to administrate the OS in a meaningful way What do you mean by that? I moved last year from macOS to Windows 10 for my personal machine, and I don't see what administrative features I could be missing.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  For example pretty much everything regarding update settings. You get mandatory diagnostic information in exchange. Really bad deal.
  - dgellow 7y ago
    For updates, I guess you mean the fact that you cannot block them completely. Or do you mean something else? So that would be the only difference. For the vast majority of people, how does that have an impact? People get their security updates that they otherwise don’t install. Seems to be an ok-ish trade off IMHO. My main frustration is the automatic reboot, but I’ve seen this behavior since at least windows 7.
m_fayer 7y ago
For anyone looking at my HN history, apologies for being a broken record. For the elderly variety of normal people this is a disaster: All the behind-the-scenes UX and setting flipping, the forced installs, and the performance dips that comes with all this means that low-confidence users feel like they're working on quicksand. The experience becomes unpredictable and scary and the iPad gets more and more use and the PC gathers dust. I don't get why this all is worth the cost of squandering the good will MS has built up elsewhere.

AsusFan 7y ago

Start? You already have to disconnect form the network to be able to use the "offline account" option in the installer (last I checked, which was like a couple of months ago). So this has been going on for a while. Edit (merge the other comment I deleted): To clarify, this was a Home Edition. I understand that the Pro edition doesn't behave this way.

NikolaeVarius 7y ago
No you don't : source just set up a dozen win10 PCs
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- zrobotics 7y ago
  Neither you or your parent is incorrect; this behavior is variable. I setup 8 new win10 boxes last week, 2 of them (HP, the others were Dell) required pulling a lan cable to get to the local account setup. I didn't have time to check details to see what was different (I'm not really IT, but small company/many hats) but the local account option didn't appear until the internet was disconnected.
  - thedaemon 7y ago
    Windows 10 Pro, I've installed it about 40 times or more. Domain Join is the option to create a local account. It works, I do it every install, while connected to network.
saagarjha 7y ago
No, you don’t. Local installs are the smallest option on the screen, but they’re still an option.
- beart 7y ago
  Installed Windows 10 Home a few weeks, poked around for 5 minutes searching for an offline option until I gave up. I know it used to be there but they have removed it.

userbinator 7y ago

It's not explicitly mentioned in the article, but the fact that presumably installing from the same disc will somehow produce different behaviour at different times (is it phoning home during the install, to decide what to do?) is rather disturbing.

awicz 7y ago

They've already started. We've been replacing Dell laptops at work these past couple months and it was nearly impossible to fully boot Windows without signing in via a Microsoft account. The whole process just felt ridiculous, especially on a computer clearly intended for a business.

philliphaydon 7y ago
When my work computer just used a MS account I had 0 issues, when i was forced to put it on the domain and have an AD account etc I have had nothing but issues. Intrusive sys-admins are more annoying these days trying to control and lock things down in a more connected world.
- UI_at_80x24 7y ago
  >Intrusive sys-admins are more annoying these days trying to control and lock things down in a more connected world. How about trying to stop a raging forest-fire and the primary tool you are supposed to use is a squirt gun? The backend that we have to work with was designed around the concept of "1 network, X users" and the biggest threat was a boot-sector virus that formatted your hard-drive after silently replicating itself to every machine. Now you need security in layers, because even if every god-damned employee was as smart as Tim Berners-Lee and didn't open every email attachment, drive-by downloads; 0-day browser exploits that give access to ring0 coupled with an OS that releases updates that are more likely to bjork your computer then actually solve the fucking problem these computers are sitting fucking ducks. And because we are seen as "Intrusive" we can't even get the C-level assholes to listen to us, or to follow the rules that they see are necessary for everybody else. The environment has grown so hostile that Becky in accounting doesn't need internet access, and you are lucky we don't limit the internet to 1 terminal in the lunch room with every port disabled and filled with a hot-glue gun. Just because YOU are "smart with computers" doesn't mean your damn computer is safe. We (SysAdmins) are fighting a desperately hard battle. We get shit on by the end-users, and Upper Management. If you have 1 frustration with your PC multiply it by thousand, and try to put yourself in our shoes.
mlrtime 7y ago

cr3ative 7y ago

The install experience is so much cleaner if you don't let it near a network.

dgellow 7y ago

What a clickbait title. That's not what the word "bullying" means. Microsoft is nudging people, maybe forcing them. But definitely not bullying...

saagarjha 7y ago
> Microsoft is nudging people, maybe forcing them. Right, and the bigger student in the cafeteria was just nudging people, sometimes forcing them, to give up their lunch money.
- dgellow 7y ago
  Why do see a need to conflate both things? Microsoft forcing users to use an online account is already quite bad. No need to change the definition of what bullying is to communicate that message.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    It's not a change. That's what bullying already meant. What does "bullying" mean to you?
    - dgellow 7y ago
      Some excerpts from Wikipedia definition, that I find accurate: > Bullying is the use of force, coercion, or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. > Bullying is the activity of repeated, aggressive behavior intended to hurt another individual, physically, mentally, or emotionally. Don’t you see a difference between an actual abuse, and the use of a UX dark pattern to get users to create/use online accounts?
      - thaumasiotes 7y ago
        In the first place, I consider removing local accounts to be an actual abuse. But in the second place, "bullying" is not restricted to "actual abuses", however defined. Bullying refers to an attitude, the attitude of shoving someone around because you can. The reverse of "bullying" is "caving in", not "being victimized". Here are some cites I pulled from COCA: > What are the keys to the match for Halep? It sounds trite, but Halep needs to stay aggressive -- as she was in the semis -- and not let Serena bully her around the court. > Can someone please explain to me why Magic Johnson and other executives have been fined by the NBA for just a simple comment on another player, but yet, Kawhi Leonard can actively and outwardly recruit an under-contract player and persuade him to bully his way out of that contract? > Just look at what China's trying to do. They're trying to bully us, hold our farmers hostage. > the Trump administration has proposed eliminating a lot of the legal enforcement protections that are in the agreement that are particularly important for Canada and Mexico especially because they're smaller economies, smaller countries, much more reliant on the U.S. market. They can't really bully their way around to getting things that they want when things don't go their way These four cites describe three different scenarios, but not one of them could be considered to match what you claim is the definition of bullying.

teh_klev 7y ago

I'm based in the UK. This has been going on for a good while outside the US. Back in mid November last year I struggled to get past the requirement to create an online account when rebuilding a friend's laptop after a hard disk failure. I scratched my head for a good bit thinking that I'd missed the old pathway that let you skip the online account step, but it turned out that the installer's behaviour had actually been altered. After some more dome scratching I eventually discovering that disabling the built-in wifi module (no wired LAN connection was made) caused the installer to let me create a local account instead. Quite bloody annoying. Footnote: this was an install from a bootable USB stick where I'd "burned" the full Windows 10 ISO image.

agumonkey 7y ago

Good luck to their marketing and sales team. It's gonna be a fun game to convince people to do so when you have perfectly equivalent and usable, totally free, and now cute open source OS/distros. People started to sell TAILS on usb keys for $10, if someone packs Linux Mint, eOS or similar for $5 .. in a web app world, linux + firefox is probably invisible to the average user.

have_faith 7y ago

Just as bad is forcing you to set up a pin number on top of your password in order to log in. It wouldn't let me not pick a pin during a recent installation so I had to set one up, finish installing and then remove it in the settings somewhere. Very odd. I don't even mind it being offered as an option, maybe some people prefer an alphanumeric pin...

cm2187 7y ago

Surely not the enterprise and server version?

wayneftw 7y ago

Which distribution of Windows 10? I'm thinking it's only the Home version. I just setup Windows 10 Pro for my brother in-law yesterday and had no problem choosing a local account.

Izkata 7y ago

They're already there. The ThinkPad I bought in December didn't have the local account option available. It's currently in "trick the user" mode: it has you connect to wifi to download the latest security updates, then remembers the network and automatically tries to have you create an account a step or two later. I avoided it by rebooting, going into the bios, disabling wifi, and then resuming setup - only when it couldn't connect would it allow a local account. Just rebooting to restart initial setup doesn't work, it remembers the network.

karrotwaltz 7y ago
I reinstalled a computer about a month ago, same thing but I didn't have to mess with BIOS settings, going back 2 steps and disconnecting the wifi worked.
- Izkata 7y ago
  I didn't have any way to go back, and rebooting skipped the network connection part of the setup because it was already connected.
scandinavegan 7y ago
I bought two different laptops in January and installed Windows 10. I managed to reach the local account option by entering a Gmail address without a connected Microsoft account when it first asked me to log in during initial setup. At the failure page they added a local account button that wasn't on the previous screen so that I could set up a local offline account. It still keeps nagging with a notification saying that my Windows installation is not fully secure since I haven't added a Microsoft account. I've disabled that notification, but it may have disabled all notifications from the settings part of Windows, I'm not sure.
- zrobotics 7y ago
  This is odd, considering it's a Microsoft device, but the Surface Pro I bought in January had a local account option available, and I connected to the update servers before creating my local account. However, around the same time I accidentally converted the local account on my gaming desktop into a Msft account when signing into 365 to setup onedrive. I didn't realize I was doing that until my account photo on the login screen changed. I can still login to the PC with my old password (Msft account p/w is the typical 20 char random string from my password manager). Tip- you can disable the security nag notifications in defender settings individually. There is a screen with different categories of 'threats', and you can turn on/off warnings individually. You probably don't want those notifications entirely disabled, since it is pretty useful as anti-virus, but the account and backup notifications are obnoxious.

eatonphil 7y ago

tldr; Among mainstream OSs I'm most happy with Windows today For the last few years I've been using Windows 10 rather than macOS. In general Windows seems mid-to-long-term more stable than macOS. But maybe that's because I'm used to treating macOS like a nicer Linux while they've been locking down many Linux-like abilities (kernel modules, tracing/debugging, etc). But there's also been the macOS filesystem and permissions model changes that have made upgrading a pain. I do have a Microsoft account but I don't do anything with it. I don't use any Microsoft products that are not included in the base install. I tried Hyper-V for a while but it was painful to configure so I've been using VMWare with more success. Generally speaking, it seems like Microsoft is looking further than a year from now -- getting design and quality right compared to macOS which no longer seems to have any particular direction. It's not just in their software; I've been seriously impressed by build quality and pricing on the Surface line of tablets and laptops. I actually mistook a Surface book for a 2015 macbook pro. In contrast, I really don't want to gamble with post-2015 Apple hardware. And although I do a lot of development on my laptop, I'm trying to move to developing in the cloud or a home-server because compiling kills my battery. Windows enables this use-case fine. To be fair, macOS would too. I haven't had any issues with unwanted ads. The only ads I'm aware of are the lock-screen backgrounds that show different places around the world... I don't really consider them an ad though.

geohuz 7y ago
"In general Windows seems mid-to-long-term more stable than macOS" It really seems like you are talking a joke?

kop316 7y ago

What makes it worse is when their account set up is broken. For an interview yesterday, I attempted to install and get an account for Skype. The back end broke, and when I tried to do create a general Microsoft account to confirm it was the back end, I was banned from using my email because of "suspicious activity". To make it more fun, their "Technical Support" chat failed as well, so I was unable to get a human to even talk through this. That would be even worse if that prevented me from installing or using Windows.

raxxorrax 7y ago
Still have the same problem with my private account. Exactly the same reasoning. Wanted to just delete the account after that, but I would need to login and they ask for my telephone number which they certainly will not get. Well, they already have it on my business account but that is beside the point. Tried contacting support, but you need an account... even wrote a fan mail to SNadella@microsoft.com (spoiler: no response). They would be legally obliged to delete my account, but at some point I had the revelation that any minute spending thoughts on them is a wasted minute of life.

Priem19 7y ago

https://xubuntu.org https://xubuntu.org, you're welcome. Or use Windows 7 if you have to. Windows 10 is just malware and bloatware built around Windows 7.

dageshi 7y ago
I think win 7 is no longer getting patched/supported, as of January this year.
- Silhouette 7y ago
  The relevant question is whether it's still safer than relying on Windows 10 even so. Windows 10 has had so many problems that the answer to this is not obvious. If you're not connecting your computer directly to any untrusted network and only operate behind a firewall, the security of your applications is likely to be more important for your protection than the security of Windows itself. Of course, Microsoft has engineered the market so that getting any new 7 systems is now intended to be impossible and exerted considerable influence to get people to move to 10, so which is safer is becoming a moot point.
Priem19 7y ago
And don't be fooled into thinking that Windows 7 is less secure because it isn't supported anymore. Windows isn't safe either way, it all depends on in how you use it. Use uBlock Origin to block ads, trackers, and other third party insidious code (preferably use uMatrix as well if you're savvy enough). Enable your firewall. Don't download files from untrustworthy sources, etc. Personally I only do financial transaction on Linux, and don't use a password manager on Windows. I actually only use Windows to play a game sporadically, or to use software that hasn't got an alternative on Linux, which is becoming quite rare.
dontdoitpls 7y ago
I've tried for the nth time 3 years ago to use Linux desktop (Ubuntu). It just takes Soo much effort to get things to work. Netflix and deactivate mouse acceleration(which isn't perfect) to name a few. I love ubuntu server, favorite os of all time. But Linux desktop just isn't anywhere near Windows quality.

mdszy 7y ago

Every day it seems more realistic to just install Windows 10 LTSC [0] instead of dealing with this crap. 0: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/ltsc/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/ltsc/

Silhouette 7y ago
AFAIK that's still not an option available to for home users or small businesses, though (unless you're willing to do illegal things to get it, I assume, but that's not a good solution to the underlying problem here).
- mdszy 7y ago
  I haven't paid for a windows license a single time in my life and kinda forgot that people (home users, anyway) actually did.
  - Tijdreiziger 7y ago
    You indirectly pay for a Windows license every time you buy a laptop.
    - lonelappde 7y ago
      Unless you get a Clevo based laptop, right?

jedieaston 7y ago

For machines on Windows 10 Pro, click on the “Domain join instead” button during OOBE. AD joins cannot be completed during OOBE, so it falls back to asking you to create a local account.

tasogare 7y ago

Again? Some enterprises never learn. Also, on one side they get points on the developers side, but they lose more on the consumer side with those practices.

saiya-jin 7y ago
I simply don't care what products they do, M$ is consistently a piece-of-shit amoral company, period. An asshole kid who is kindly opening the doors to teachers and kicks smaller kids in the head just around the corner and tortures little animals after school is still a proper asshole.

dessant 7y ago

NVIDIA has also removed the possibility to set up an NVIDIA SHIELD TV without a Google account, there is no option to skip logging in during setup. The requirement for a Google account is not advertised on their site [1]. Other devices with the same Android TV version have a skip button on the Google account screen. [1] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/shield-tv/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/shield-tv/

chrisan 7y ago

Not going to lie... I setup win10 2 weeks ago and I didn't see (notice!) the local options. As I use Outlook.com/Onedrive I didn't care until I opened up my terminal and noticed my username was the first 5 letters of my email. What the hell. I don't get why they would do that instead of just using your firstname or asking you at least. or at the very least use _everything_ up till @ instead of the first 5... This irked me beyond belief and after googling a bunch of crazy ways to 'fix' this, the easiest turned out to be creating a local account 'chris', deleted my MS account, then attached the MS account to 'chris'

PaulKeeble 7y ago
To get it now you often have to disable all networking, if you don't do that it doesn't show up. It is that hidden now.

pkorzeniewski 7y ago

I feel like the tech in general is getting user-hostile... Everyone (websites, apps, cars, tvs, etc.) wants to track you and collect as much data as possible, websites nag you to install app on your phone, dark patterns everywhere, "smart" devices that won't work without an internet connection or become bricks after a while, smartphone manufacturers forcing you to buy new phone by making apps slower on older devices, more closed protocols and walled gardens - the list goes on and on...

trevyn 7y ago
Time to get out of tech and into starting the next revolution? We’re not “tech people”, we’re just early adopters. :)
kgwxd 7y ago
I'm starting to think all the crazy libre software people are on to something.
- tcd 7y ago
  They're not "crazy", which is pretty disrespectful. Anyone paying attention has seen the writing on the wall for a while. Snowden just confirmed what they've been saying all along. Data is the new arms race, those who collect the most have the most to gain, especially financially where data is being a core asset to a business. Dumb is going to be the new gold, at least for those "crazies" you speak of.
  - m4r35n357 7y ago
    Whoosh!
  - Moru 7y ago
    That post was reeking of sarcasm even if it was hidden well :-)
chooseaname 7y ago
> I feel like the tech in general is getting user-hostile... Of course it is. How else can tech sustain perpetual growth without wringing every penny out of users?

jellicle 7y ago

That headline seems really bad. Windows has been in "bullying" mode for years now. Installing without a Microsoft account has been very difficult for a long time. The change now is to refuse to install at all without a Microsoft account, which is not "bullying" any more, it's something else.

rezeroed 7y ago

Bought a surface a few months ago, nice hardware, but windows 10 is horrifically spammy/scammy. Immediately replaced it with arch.

tunap 7y ago
Can that be done safely? As I understood it, albeit years ago, you needed certain MS services/drivers for thermal & battery management unavailable in Win 7 or Linux. The hardware & build of the early Surface Tablets was solid(still?), but I would never considered using Win 8 or 10.
- rezeroed 7y ago
  I have a Laptop 3, not tablet, seems fine.

rb808 7y ago

Most people here don't like having a MS account, but is it really so terrible? When I log in each day I'll use my AWS account, 2 or 3 google accounts, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, Slack. You can't use a phone or a tablet without a Apple/Google account, surely having a MS account to use Windows isn't such a big deal.

hurricanetc 7y ago
You absolutely can use a phone or tablet without an Apple or Google account.
zeveb 7y ago
Bruce Schneier wrote a bit about tech feudalism seven years ago: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/12/feudal_sec.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/12/feudal_sec.ht... BTW, it is entirely possible to use a smart phone without a Google or Apple account.
mlrtime 7y ago
All those things are required because they're online services. You can have a phone or computer always offline, why do you need a online account?
- tatersolid 7y ago
  How useful is a phone that is offline? What exactly do you do with it? Making phone calls is inherently an online activity.
drngdds 7y ago
I'd rather not tie something to an account (and therefore my identity) when I don't have to. I don't know what kind of information about my computer use they're associating with me. Windows always worked without an online account before and it's not like Windows 10 introduces must-have features that need one.
maeln 7y ago
> When I log in each day I'll use my AWS account, 2 or 3 google accounts, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, Slack. You can't use a phone or a tablet without a Apple/Google account, surely having a MS account to use Windows isn't such a big deal. Just because the situation is already bad doesn't mean we shouldn't complain that it continue to get worse ...

jokes9000 7y ago

debian linux. feels twice as fast as windows and there is zero concern its going to do something insidious.

speeder 7y ago

I use a mix of Windows 7 and *nix OSes both at home and work. At work we do have some Win10 machines, and they are ALWAYS doing something completely off the wall bizarre and unexpected, also doing any sort of maintenance on them is a pain, the tablet-style interface shoehorned into some places just doesn't work well. I know Win7 support is over, but we don't intend to leave it for Win10, we might leave it for Reactos or something else, but not Win10. Some examples of Win10 issues: sending tons of data to MS without permission. Not allowing us to install with local account unless we disable network on the EFI. Despite we trying everything to disable updates, the thing updates itself, reset several configurations, and reboot the machine. One of the times it did that, it broke some ancient but mandatory software on our business (it was a PDF driver that was mandatory to be used by our bank that would issue the invoice for our clients, so when this happened we were forced to install all banking software on a Win7 machien so we could get paid...). Showing ads out of the blue on Start menu and on the login screen. Installed games without permission (not Microsoft ones, I mean stuff that is popular on mobile, from king.com and whatnot). The list goes and goes on.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago
Has your business looked into using Windows 10 LTSB/LTSC?
- milankragujevic 7y ago
  Latest LTSC (Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2019) has some of the problems described.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    It has a couple but lacks many others. You'll never have critical software break in an update on LTSC. And equally critical, on LTSC you can go down the customization route to fix the other issues, and not have your settings just get reset in an update.
corey_moncure 7y ago
>Despite we trying everything to disable updates, the thing updates itself, reset several configurations, and reboot the machine. I too had tried all the tricks, including using a remote Powershell into my own local machine as the System role to change ownership of the Update "Orchestrator" and disable it, etc., nothing worked and Windows finds a way to revert all the settings you make. Then I discovered an open source utility written in C# that works with Windows' own internal Windows Update API to disable its shenanigans. Search for "wumgr". You can disable the automatic updates, block access to the WU servers, and even disable the WU page in the Settings app. You can also use it to manage the updates manually and selectively if you prefer. So far it has worked flawlessly on my machines and hopefully it will work for you as well. There are many many reasons why not being in control of OS updates is a bad thing, but the absolute red line for me is having my laptop wake itself up inside of my bag while I'm traveling, potentially creating a fire hazard and certainly draining the battery life my career may be about to depend on during an important presentation, or create incompatibility issues.

jasonjayr 7y ago

FWIW, I don't see this set of steps in any of the comments here. And as of late I've been setting up tons of Dell Laptops, so I have this memorized. Windows 10 Professional, freshly minted from Dell: * "Set up for organization" * "Local account or domain join" (it's in small print in the lower left) * Create a local Admin account * Do not setup a password at this time (it'll force you to set up recovery questions or some other nonsense.) * set all the data sharing options to "no" * skip entering data for the Dell registration * On first login, hit ctrl-alt-del and set a password there. Windows Home does not offer the choice to "Setup up for organization", so you are forced to make a windows account. There's no way easy way out of it. Microsoft keeps saying "Windows is a service" and has that text somewhere in the install. I guess if you want an operating system, you have to turn to Linux.

velox_io 7y ago

They do still have the option to force local accounts only. Fire up Group Policy Editor "GPedit" then Computer Config/ admin templates/ system/ user profiles/ and enable "Only allow local user profiles". "If you enable this setting, the following occurs on the affected computer: At first logon, the user receives a new local profile, rather than the roaming profile. At logoff, changes are saved to the local profile. All subsequent logons use the local profile. " This is on Windows 10 Pro. There's a surprising number of settings that can be configured here. As Microsoft continues to dumb down menus and the control panel they are normally tucked in here. Or you may rarely have to dig into Powershell and the registry, very rarely.

ryuukk_ 7y ago

macOS's online feature aren't intrusive, so i went ahead and i enabled them (icloud) on other hand, with microsoft, it feels like they make everything possible for me to hate their products, therefore i'm not willing to use their online services it is that simple, you trynna fuck me, i won't use your shit it is similar with mozilla and their agressive marketing, the result is constant hate toward them i am a simple man

jqpabc123 7y ago

Stupid requirement that does nothing but discourage the use of other related MS services --- the ones MS actually earns money from.

ProtoAES256 7y ago

It gets even more notorious with time. I bought a new laptop recently and with Windows 10 Home instead of my Pro norm with it, and was very shocked to see how much control did I lose if were I a normal user. The mandatory and force restarting updates, web results in searches, king games, nag-ful notifications, edge self promotion, telemetry etc. I can't imagine what [profanity] that normal users had to live on with in most recent Windows. I'm waiting for the last straw that is gaming and am ready to ditch Windows completely.

TwoNineFive 7y ago

Windows 10: It's not your computer.