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> whose fiber optic lines were tapped by UK intelligence to avoid NSA laws against spying on americans Who did you work for? This appears to be a 180deg misund

> whose fiber optic lines were tapped by UK intelligence to avoid NSA laws against spying on americans Who did you work for? This appears to be a 180deg misunderstanding of the 5 Eyes agreement. GCHQ is not allowed to spy on Americans.

dekhn 7y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/31/technology/nsa-is-mining-google-and-yahoo-abroad.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/31/technology/nsa-is-mining-... "In partnership with the British agency known as Government Communications Headquarters, or GCHQ, the N.S.A. has apparently taken advantage of the vast amounts of data stored in and traveling among global data centers, which run all modern online computing, according to a report Wednesday by The Washington Post. N.S.A. collection activities abroad face fewer legal restrictions and less oversight than its actions in the United States." Note there's a fair amount of speculation on the specific details of how and what data is collected and shared.
- JoeSmithson 7y ago
  This source doesn't remotely support what you said, in fact it explicitly contradicts it; > "pushed back against the notion that it was collecting abroad to “get around” legal limits imposed by domestic surveillance laws"
  - hobs 7y ago
    There's been public claims about it, and honestly thinking that they wouldnt do it once they have the power to seems naive? https://www.zdnet.com/article/thatcher-ordered-echelon-surveillance-when-pm/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/thatcher-ordered-echelon-surve... > Ex-spy Mike Frost told the CBS 60 Minutes programme that Thatcher had ordered surveillance on two cabinet colleagues according to excerpts released on Thursday. The allegation comes in the same week that a European Parliament report said Echelon, a surveillance system run by the United States, Canada, Britain, Australia and New Zealand, was used for industrial espionage.
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    "pushed back"? Like how the director of the NSA "pushed back" on congressional questions of whether the NSA was broadly collecting any data from American citizens?
- samstave 7y ago
  Don't forget that Snowden leaks revealed that there is a huge open sharing pipe directly with Israel. I can't recall the details - Ill have to go look it up again, but apparently Israel gets more data than any of the others, IIRC.
  - whearyou 7y ago
    Source? When someone says something about mysterious unseen evil activities and Israel it raises my conspiracy theory detector to yellow alert
    - samstave 7y ago
      Snowden is the source. And screw your "conspiracy alert" BS. WTF sort of BS are you implying?? That I am anti-semetic because it is a known, published, leaked, sourced from Snowden that Israel has all your data? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-... Why dont you explain how your "conspiracy theory detector" wouldn't have been triggered had the leak stated the info was shared with Ireland or Iran? Jeasus. Your conspiracy theory detector should be going of for literally SO many other things regarding Israel and technology. What do Stuxnet and/or DUQU say to your sensors? ----------------------------------- EDIT: I am calling 'shill' on this account; @whearyou -- registered in 2015 with one comment, then only another start of comments a few months back, karma of 8, and then an immediate "i feel a conspiraycy" BS comment when the term "israel" is used. Yeah - Shill. You idiots do realize that people who have been on sites for more than a decade can fucking see your lame attemps at narration steering? Fuck off.
      - 454545_UUUUUU 7y ago
        I have some friends that are relatively high up the food chain in Israel (private industry, VC, tech). They laugh when Americans argue about Israeli influence in the US. Conspiracy denotes that something is hidden whereas the relationship between the US and Israel is very much out in the open. Americans tend to think of their "old world" ties as having a focus on England and Western Europe, because of history, ancestry and a majority Christian population. But we are very much a Jewish state. Note: I'm not suggesting that Israel surreptitiously controls the US government -- again, that would suggest an effort to conceal cooperation or that the cooperation is one-sided. I kind of get it when people knee jerk about conspiracy and anti-Semitism. The US is facing a lot of systemic problems and it's easy to look for a Bogeyman. Take the obvious one: America is in a forever war that's part foreign policy and part economic necessity. If you think that forever war is driven by Israeli imperialism (or even just the desire to stay alive) you're missing the larger, more important economic picture. America is an arms dealer. War pumps a lot of money into the US at all levels. There's some greed in there of course, but also a whole lot of jobs, car payments, tuition, mortgages and the other prosaic things that keep the economy going. I wish people would stop pretending that they're the first person to notice the US and Israel are allies. Or, on the other side, that talking about it should be verboten.
JohnFen 7y ago
> GCHQ is not allowed to spy on Americans. Since when do spy agencies avoid doing things just because they're "not allowed" to do them? An activity being disallowed only means that they'll avoid telling people that they're doing it.

dekhn 7y ago

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/31/technology/nsa-is-mining-google-and-yahoo-abroad.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/31/technology/nsa-is-mining-... "In partnership with the British agency known as Government Communications Headquarters, or GCHQ, the N.S.A. has apparently taken advantage of the vast amounts of data stored in and traveling among global data centers, which run all modern online computing, according to a report Wednesday by The Washington Post. N.S.A. collection activities abroad face fewer legal restrictions and less oversight than its actions in the United States." Note there's a fair amount of speculation on the specific details of how and what data is collected and shared.

JoeSmithson 7y ago
This source doesn't remotely support what you said, in fact it explicitly contradicts it; > "pushed back against the notion that it was collecting abroad to “get around” legal limits imposed by domestic surveillance laws"
- hobs 7y ago
  There's been public claims about it, and honestly thinking that they wouldnt do it once they have the power to seems naive? https://www.zdnet.com/article/thatcher-ordered-echelon-surveillance-when-pm/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/thatcher-ordered-echelon-surve... > Ex-spy Mike Frost told the CBS 60 Minutes programme that Thatcher had ordered surveillance on two cabinet colleagues according to excerpts released on Thursday. The allegation comes in the same week that a European Parliament report said Echelon, a surveillance system run by the United States, Canada, Britain, Australia and New Zealand, was used for industrial espionage.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  "pushed back"? Like how the director of the NSA "pushed back" on congressional questions of whether the NSA was broadly collecting any data from American citizens?
samstave 7y ago
Don't forget that Snowden leaks revealed that there is a huge open sharing pipe directly with Israel. I can't recall the details - Ill have to go look it up again, but apparently Israel gets more data than any of the others, IIRC.
- whearyou 7y ago
  Source? When someone says something about mysterious unseen evil activities and Israel it raises my conspiracy theory detector to yellow alert
  - samstave 7y ago
    Snowden is the source. And screw your "conspiracy alert" BS. WTF sort of BS are you implying?? That I am anti-semetic because it is a known, published, leaked, sourced from Snowden that Israel has all your data? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-... Why dont you explain how your "conspiracy theory detector" wouldn't have been triggered had the leak stated the info was shared with Ireland or Iran? Jeasus. Your conspiracy theory detector should be going of for literally SO many other things regarding Israel and technology. What do Stuxnet and/or DUQU say to your sensors? ----------------------------------- EDIT: I am calling 'shill' on this account; @whearyou -- registered in 2015 with one comment, then only another start of comments a few months back, karma of 8, and then an immediate "i feel a conspiraycy" BS comment when the term "israel" is used. Yeah - Shill. You idiots do realize that people who have been on sites for more than a decade can fucking see your lame attemps at narration steering? Fuck off.
    - 454545_UUUUUU 7y ago
      I have some friends that are relatively high up the food chain in Israel (private industry, VC, tech). They laugh when Americans argue about Israeli influence in the US. Conspiracy denotes that something is hidden whereas the relationship between the US and Israel is very much out in the open. Americans tend to think of their "old world" ties as having a focus on England and Western Europe, because of history, ancestry and a majority Christian population. But we are very much a Jewish state. Note: I'm not suggesting that Israel surreptitiously controls the US government -- again, that would suggest an effort to conceal cooperation or that the cooperation is one-sided. I kind of get it when people knee jerk about conspiracy and anti-Semitism. The US is facing a lot of systemic problems and it's easy to look for a Bogeyman. Take the obvious one: America is in a forever war that's part foreign policy and part economic necessity. If you think that forever war is driven by Israeli imperialism (or even just the desire to stay alive) you're missing the larger, more important economic picture. America is an arms dealer. War pumps a lot of money into the US at all levels. There's some greed in there of course, but also a whole lot of jobs, car payments, tuition, mortgages and the other prosaic things that keep the economy going. I wish people would stop pretending that they're the first person to notice the US and Israel are allies. Or, on the other side, that talking about it should be verboten.

JohnFen 7y ago

> GCHQ is not allowed to spy on Americans. Since when do spy agencies avoid doing things just because they're "not allowed" to do them? An activity being disallowed only means that they'll avoid telling people that they're doing it.