4 ms·

Basically, it's a race-to-the-bottom as far as responsibility for the externalities [1] of ship-based transportation goes. Why does Bolivia, a land-locked, thir

Basically, it's a race-to-the-bottom as far as responsibility for the externalities [1] of ship-based transportation goes. Why does Bolivia, a land-locked, third world nations "have one of the largest commercial fleets in the world"[2]. If responsibility for the negative parts of shipping can be shifted indefinitely, it means it never goes into costs, which facilitates trade and "wage arbitrage" [3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_labor_arbitrage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_labor_arbitrage

PostOnce 7y ago
Bolivia was not always landlocked, and very much still resents losing its coastline to Chile during https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific They would like to regain control of said coastline. In fact, they have a holiday to commemorate said loss: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%ADa_del_Mar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%ADa_del_Mar https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2015/05/09/beaches-of-the-future https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2015/05/09/beaches-of...
- dgemm 7y ago
  They still have a navy, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivian_Navy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivian_Navy
- skinnymuch 7y ago
  Wouldn’t Bolivia have been a relatively new country in 1880? Like a multiple of years have passed since that time than before?
  - karatinversion 7y ago
    Roughly the same ratio in Bolivia's history as the Civil War is in the United States'. Some people still make a big deal out of that.
jb775 7y ago
I used to work in the supply-chain industry setting up the trucking end of cross-ocean shipments (mostly full truckloads of electric toothbrushes coming from China). I'm trying to think of ways to push back on this behavior but it's tough in such a low margin industry. The best approach is probably to threaten their revenue source --- I know that the transportation departments setting up these shipments (and therefore approving payment to the shipping company) don't even think/care about this(they are pressured to get all their loads covered by the end of the day by the toothbrush company)...so it's probably on the consumer (who pays for the electric toothbrush) to hold companies more accountable for the vendors they choose to work with. If I had access to a list of companies who held their entire supply chain to a certain set of standards, I'd be willing to pay a little more for my toothbrush.
- codebje 7y ago
  It's practically speaking impossible for consumers to discover and act on this information. We buy our toothbrushes from a retail store, many transactions removed from the manufacture of the toothbrush, and every organisation in that chain would have to voluntarily agree to honestly report its transportation details. This is unlikely. Even if it did happen, the onus would then be on consumers to interpret these details, perform a comparison between a number of available brands, and determine the most conscientious choice. And then review this decision periodically, because transportation contracts come and go. This is a substantial amount of work. Even if consumers were able to do that amount of work, they'd then have to replicate that work for every single product, because everything goes through a similar transportation process. There is absolutely no way that any individual has enough time in their lives to research the transportation details of even a reasonable sampling of products used. And that's not even considering the transportation issues in the supply chain! As you observe, individual organisations also cannot act, because doing so makes them less competitive. This is basically the same reason why individuals can't effectively tackle climate change. There is far too much information that's hidden, and far too much time required to effectively assess information, for individuals to influence anything. Like with climate change, there is a solution, and it's regulation. The problem would vanish overnight if the EU, the US, and I guess now the UK all refused to allow docking of ships with flags of convenience, or even just ones flying flags from countries that don't ratify the maritime treaties. And like with climate change, the solution is hampered not because of technical difficulties or cost, it's hampered by lack of will to spend a relatively small amount of money on something that only has a social good and not an economic good.

PostOnce 7y ago

Bolivia was not always landlocked, and very much still resents losing its coastline to Chile during https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific They would like to regain control of said coastline. In fact, they have a holiday to commemorate said loss: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%ADa_del_Mar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%ADa_del_Mar https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2015/05/09/beaches-of-the-future https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2015/05/09/beaches-of...

dgemm 7y ago
They still have a navy, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivian_Navy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivian_Navy
skinnymuch 7y ago
Wouldn’t Bolivia have been a relatively new country in 1880? Like a multiple of years have passed since that time than before?
- karatinversion 7y ago
  Roughly the same ratio in Bolivia's history as the Civil War is in the United States'. Some people still make a big deal out of that.

jb775 7y ago

I used to work in the supply-chain industry setting up the trucking end of cross-ocean shipments (mostly full truckloads of electric toothbrushes coming from China). I'm trying to think of ways to push back on this behavior but it's tough in such a low margin industry. The best approach is probably to threaten their revenue source --- I know that the transportation departments setting up these shipments (and therefore approving payment to the shipping company) don't even think/care about this(they are pressured to get all their loads covered by the end of the day by the toothbrush company)...so it's probably on the consumer (who pays for the electric toothbrush) to hold companies more accountable for the vendors they choose to work with. If I had access to a list of companies who held their entire supply chain to a certain set of standards, I'd be willing to pay a little more for my toothbrush.

codebje 7y ago
It's practically speaking impossible for consumers to discover and act on this information. We buy our toothbrushes from a retail store, many transactions removed from the manufacture of the toothbrush, and every organisation in that chain would have to voluntarily agree to honestly report its transportation details. This is unlikely. Even if it did happen, the onus would then be on consumers to interpret these details, perform a comparison between a number of available brands, and determine the most conscientious choice. And then review this decision periodically, because transportation contracts come and go. This is a substantial amount of work. Even if consumers were able to do that amount of work, they'd then have to replicate that work for every single product, because everything goes through a similar transportation process. There is absolutely no way that any individual has enough time in their lives to research the transportation details of even a reasonable sampling of products used. And that's not even considering the transportation issues in the supply chain! As you observe, individual organisations also cannot act, because doing so makes them less competitive. This is basically the same reason why individuals can't effectively tackle climate change. There is far too much information that's hidden, and far too much time required to effectively assess information, for individuals to influence anything. Like with climate change, there is a solution, and it's regulation. The problem would vanish overnight if the EU, the US, and I guess now the UK all refused to allow docking of ships with flags of convenience, or even just ones flying flags from countries that don't ratify the maritime treaties. And like with climate change, the solution is hampered not because of technical difficulties or cost, it's hampered by lack of will to spend a relatively small amount of money on something that only has a social good and not an economic good.