5 ms·

Absolutely pathetic for both sides. If you don't like your white collar tech job, go somewhere else. It's not factory work where you're paid way less to do the

by aty268 7y ago

Absolutely pathetic for both sides. If you don't like your white collar tech job, go somewhere else. It's not factory work where you're paid way less to do the same thing wherever you go. You make yourselves and your company look weak in doing this. This is why the rest of the United States thinks tech is full of a bunch of entitled pricks.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago
Just because you work in tech doesn't mean you can't get exploited. And just "go somewhere else" isn't possible for everyone.
- aty268 7y ago
  And why would it not be? If I don't like my job, I get another one. It's easier to do this as a software engineer than almost anything else.
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    Countless reasons why. Low job supply in your area and inability to move due to family and other responsibilities tying you down or too busy taking care of your kids to have time to interview and study leetcode or too little time spent on a gig getting you labeled as a job hopper or as a problematic employee by other companies if you don't have enough experience backing you up. I feel you have no idea how complex people's lives can be.
    - aty268 7y ago
      Then that was the employees fault. They took the risk of moving to the middle of nowhere, (which for Kickstarter happens to be New York?), and are getting paid a bit less than industry average because of it. Is that a call to unionize? Absolutely not.
      - wbronitsky 7y ago
        It seems like this would be solved by you not going to work for Kickstarter. Maybe people other than you have problems you cannot see or understand.
        aty268 7y ago
        1) I agree, me and everyone else. This problem will be solved not through a union, but nobody except the bottom of the barrel wanting to work for Kickstarter. Then they will either bump their pay to get good workers back, or fail. Simple economics. 2) I also agree, but that doesn't mean these workers should unionize.
        wbronitsky 7y ago
        These are bold assertions with no evidence. We do understand that you don't think these people are entitled to a union, nor are they entitled to live where they want and have the respect they think they deserve. Yet you have not said why. It would seem that Kickstarter employees, the ones with the most information here, do disagree with you though.
        aty268 7y ago
        If they live in New York, and they have to unionize rather than just find a better job, something tells me they deserve below average industry pay. Of course the employees would disagree, that doesn't mean anything about what they deserve to be paid.
        wbronitsky 7y ago
        There is no point in having a conversation if you are going to continue to assert points without any evidence or arguments to back them up. We understand that you look down on this unionization and don't believe that these workers should have the rights that they think they should. You made your point. Good day.
  - claudiawerner 7y ago
    Being easy to do does not mean that it should be expected or usual to do - and even then, if it wasn't easy to do for just a single person in the company, they now have another layer of protection against that. Not every employee lives in the same personal circumstance.
    - aty268 7y ago
      Their headquarters is in New York, not some island in the middle of nowhere. Ignoring that point, if the employees really are working from somewhere there are NO other tech jobs, then that would be their fault. They took the risk in moving / raising a family in that area relying on a single company to pay them the salaries they want. The price is slightly below average industry pay. Is that a call to unionize? Nope.
      - claudiawerner 7y ago
        >if the employees really are working from somewhere there are NO other tech jobs, then that would be their fault. I can't see how it is their fault. Not everyone can afford to live in particular places. You talk about risk, but risk is in fact what is prized - the CEO benefits because they took the risk in starting the company. The CEO is compensated for that risk. Why aren't the employees compensated for their own risk? >The price is slightly below average industry pay. Is that a call to unionize? Nope. It can be. Unionization isn't only about salary, it's about maintaining that level of salary, and other benefits. There are many reasons to unionize, which apply to every worker: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22357492 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22357492 The owner of the company puts as much effort as possible into increasing the duration and intensity of work for a lower wage, providing they maintain the value desired. The worker, likewise, puts as much effort as possible into reducing the duration and intensity of work, and bargaining for a higher wage. Unions make this push and pull more symmetrical.
  - mrlala 7y ago
    >If I don't like my job, I get another one. Looks like someone doesn't own a home or have a family. Or if you do, perhaps you have adequate savings where that's maybe not a big deal. Or maybe your spouse makes good money also to support for a while. But most people are not lucky enough to be in that situation.
    - aty268 7y ago
      I do not, so it's possible i'm misunderstanding something. If I live in New York, as Kickstarter is located, what is so difficult about changing jobs if I have a family? Same thing with other tech hubs, you don't need to physically move homes in order to change jobs. What is so hard about it? Even if you have to move, my family moved 10 or so times in a few years when I was in grade school for new jobs, never seemed to be a huge issue.
dang 7y ago
Please follow the HN guidelines when posting here. Lashing out like this not only damages the commons, it discredits what you're saying, so it's neither in your interest as a community member nor as an individual. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- aty268 7y ago
  I understand. I apologize. You may want to remove my comment on the other thread then (exactly the same), although interestingly it is upvoted there.

by aty268 7y ago

ChuckNorris89 7y ago

Just because you work in tech doesn't mean you can't get exploited. And just "go somewhere else" isn't possible for everyone.

aty268 7y ago
And why would it not be? If I don't like my job, I get another one. It's easier to do this as a software engineer than almost anything else.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  Countless reasons why. Low job supply in your area and inability to move due to family and other responsibilities tying you down or too busy taking care of your kids to have time to interview and study leetcode or too little time spent on a gig getting you labeled as a job hopper or as a problematic employee by other companies if you don't have enough experience backing you up. I feel you have no idea how complex people's lives can be.
  - aty268 7y ago
    Then that was the employees fault. They took the risk of moving to the middle of nowhere, (which for Kickstarter happens to be New York?), and are getting paid a bit less than industry average because of it. Is that a call to unionize? Absolutely not.
    - wbronitsky 7y ago
      It seems like this would be solved by you not going to work for Kickstarter. Maybe people other than you have problems you cannot see or understand.
      - aty268 7y ago
        1) I agree, me and everyone else. This problem will be solved not through a union, but nobody except the bottom of the barrel wanting to work for Kickstarter. Then they will either bump their pay to get good workers back, or fail. Simple economics. 2) I also agree, but that doesn't mean these workers should unionize.
        wbronitsky 7y ago
        These are bold assertions with no evidence. We do understand that you don't think these people are entitled to a union, nor are they entitled to live where they want and have the respect they think they deserve. Yet you have not said why. It would seem that Kickstarter employees, the ones with the most information here, do disagree with you though.
        aty268 7y ago
        If they live in New York, and they have to unionize rather than just find a better job, something tells me they deserve below average industry pay. Of course the employees would disagree, that doesn't mean anything about what they deserve to be paid.
        wbronitsky 7y ago
        There is no point in having a conversation if you are going to continue to assert points without any evidence or arguments to back them up. We understand that you look down on this unionization and don't believe that these workers should have the rights that they think they should. You made your point. Good day.
- claudiawerner 7y ago
  Being easy to do does not mean that it should be expected or usual to do - and even then, if it wasn't easy to do for just a single person in the company, they now have another layer of protection against that. Not every employee lives in the same personal circumstance.
  - aty268 7y ago
    Their headquarters is in New York, not some island in the middle of nowhere. Ignoring that point, if the employees really are working from somewhere there are NO other tech jobs, then that would be their fault. They took the risk in moving / raising a family in that area relying on a single company to pay them the salaries they want. The price is slightly below average industry pay. Is that a call to unionize? Nope.
    - claudiawerner 7y ago
      >if the employees really are working from somewhere there are NO other tech jobs, then that would be their fault. I can't see how it is their fault. Not everyone can afford to live in particular places. You talk about risk, but risk is in fact what is prized - the CEO benefits because they took the risk in starting the company. The CEO is compensated for that risk. Why aren't the employees compensated for their own risk? >The price is slightly below average industry pay. Is that a call to unionize? Nope. It can be. Unionization isn't only about salary, it's about maintaining that level of salary, and other benefits. There are many reasons to unionize, which apply to every worker: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22357492 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22357492 The owner of the company puts as much effort as possible into increasing the duration and intensity of work for a lower wage, providing they maintain the value desired. The worker, likewise, puts as much effort as possible into reducing the duration and intensity of work, and bargaining for a higher wage. Unions make this push and pull more symmetrical.
- mrlala 7y ago
  >If I don't like my job, I get another one. Looks like someone doesn't own a home or have a family. Or if you do, perhaps you have adequate savings where that's maybe not a big deal. Or maybe your spouse makes good money also to support for a while. But most people are not lucky enough to be in that situation.
  - aty268 7y ago
    I do not, so it's possible i'm misunderstanding something. If I live in New York, as Kickstarter is located, what is so difficult about changing jobs if I have a family? Same thing with other tech hubs, you don't need to physically move homes in order to change jobs. What is so hard about it? Even if you have to move, my family moved 10 or so times in a few years when I was in grade school for new jobs, never seemed to be a huge issue.

dang 7y ago

Please follow the HN guidelines when posting here. Lashing out like this not only damages the commons, it discredits what you're saying, so it's neither in your interest as a community member nor as an individual. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

aty268 7y ago
I understand. I apologize. You may want to remove my comment on the other thread then (exactly the same), although interestingly it is upvoted there.