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I mean there is a difference between having fun and conducting yourself in a professional manner where appropriate. With the increase in adoption of certain te

I mean there is a difference between having fun and conducting yourself in a professional manner where appropriate. With the increase in adoption of certain technologies (node etc) I have noticed a relationship with the people employed to work with them and their poor level of professionalism in the workplace with regard to their work and how they deal with other people (in the UK) and even how they dress. Similar age groups in other areas don't display these traits. A number of these people work as contractors as well, so at least it was easy to get rid of them. Go post memes on the LKML and see what happens

matsemann 7y ago
I'm not saying I want memes everywhere, but since I'm spending 1/3 of my life at work I'd rather it be a good time. > Go post memes on the LKML and see what happens I think the seriousness (almost angry tone) in certain communities also is a disservice to attract new members. If I make my first PR in some project, it's easy too feel attacked when the reply is a negative one, albeit strictly professional. If it however has a more light-hearted tone and a bit more sandwiched fun-serious-fun one feels more welcome.
- pdimitar 7y ago
  Contrasting an opinion you don't like with the other extreme is usually called a strawman and is not a good way to argue. As others have said, I too am not against a light-hearted tone. But when you have a legitimate problem that might be blocking you from doing your work and your only source of information is a GitHub issue then it should go without saying that the information should be dense and compressed and it should absolutely lack memes, yes.
- seabird 7y ago
  The serious tone is a huge draw to the LKML and that way of working. They really do care about not having left-pad type meltdowns. They really do care about being able to find information easily, even years after the fact. There's a big difference between shooting the shit in your private communications and cluttering up places where people are looking for solutions.
Shacklz 7y ago
> [..] and even how they dress. While there are many points in your post that I agree with, we really should stop worrying about how people dress. If it's a developer sitting behind a computer screen all day long with zero customer contact whatsoever, he really shouldn't be forced to wear a certain dress code just to satisfy someone's standard of professionalism. Such feelings are in similar spirit as "woman should not wear trousers" a few decades ago - there is just no rationale behind it other than conditioning by society.
- scoutt 7y ago
  > conditioning by society. There is a limit. I'm sure you have one too if you really think about it. Is it tattoos all over the face? What about sandals? Or shorts? Or going bare-feet around the office. I don't know... It's about people giving me money for work. I don't feel like I can go to work dressed like any given Sunday.
  - ElFitz 7y ago
    > I don't feel like I can go to work dressed like any given Sunday. And why not? As you said: they are giving us money... for work. Not for playing dressing up. If they expect otherwise, they should be clear about it up front and give a good reason to give up on that freedom while we work for them.
    - scoutt 7y ago
      > And why not? To me (and of course, it's a personal opinion) it shows that someone cares. It's like when you do your resume, you want it clean and presentable, without typos, to show that you care. We all like good user interfaces and experiences in our programs. To me, the look is like the presentation layer of our own UX. Is it required for our work? Most of the times it is not, because our work depends on the logic layers, but it doesn't hurt to have a nice presentation layer. And I'm not telling about going to work in a D&G suit. EDIT: and I'm not telling that I would discriminate or think right away that someone doesn't care! I don't do that. My attitude about good looking is mono-directional; from me towards others.
raxxorrax 7y ago
I work badly with people that pronounce professionalism as a form of conduct too much to be honest. That said, my professional conduct on the technical side is always to vendor that shit if the project is of a nature that allows doing so (mostly restricted to proprietary software). Even for builds. There are harsh disadvantages with doing that if maintenance is disregarded, but these are problems you can tackle yourself instead of being dependent on third party tools working. The sheer numbers of users of NPM says that this can happen from time to time and the stability they are providing is nothing other than exceptional. Otherwise professional conduct mainly comes down to creating an atmosphere of noncommittal distance to deal with difficult personalities. I think being subjected to it for too long should disintegrate any personality, because it is completely unnatural. Hard to imagine people longing for more of that.

matsemann 7y ago

I'm not saying I want memes everywhere, but since I'm spending 1/3 of my life at work I'd rather it be a good time. > Go post memes on the LKML and see what happens I think the seriousness (almost angry tone) in certain communities also is a disservice to attract new members. If I make my first PR in some project, it's easy too feel attacked when the reply is a negative one, albeit strictly professional. If it however has a more light-hearted tone and a bit more sandwiched fun-serious-fun one feels more welcome.

pdimitar 7y ago
Contrasting an opinion you don't like with the other extreme is usually called a strawman and is not a good way to argue. As others have said, I too am not against a light-hearted tone. But when you have a legitimate problem that might be blocking you from doing your work and your only source of information is a GitHub issue then it should go without saying that the information should be dense and compressed and it should absolutely lack memes, yes.
seabird 7y ago
The serious tone is a huge draw to the LKML and that way of working. They really do care about not having left-pad type meltdowns. They really do care about being able to find information easily, even years after the fact. There's a big difference between shooting the shit in your private communications and cluttering up places where people are looking for solutions.

Shacklz 7y ago

> [..] and even how they dress. While there are many points in your post that I agree with, we really should stop worrying about how people dress. If it's a developer sitting behind a computer screen all day long with zero customer contact whatsoever, he really shouldn't be forced to wear a certain dress code just to satisfy someone's standard of professionalism. Such feelings are in similar spirit as "woman should not wear trousers" a few decades ago - there is just no rationale behind it other than conditioning by society.

scoutt 7y ago
> conditioning by society. There is a limit. I'm sure you have one too if you really think about it. Is it tattoos all over the face? What about sandals? Or shorts? Or going bare-feet around the office. I don't know... It's about people giving me money for work. I don't feel like I can go to work dressed like any given Sunday.
- ElFitz 7y ago
  > I don't feel like I can go to work dressed like any given Sunday. And why not? As you said: they are giving us money... for work. Not for playing dressing up. If they expect otherwise, they should be clear about it up front and give a good reason to give up on that freedom while we work for them.
  - scoutt 7y ago
    > And why not? To me (and of course, it's a personal opinion) it shows that someone cares. It's like when you do your resume, you want it clean and presentable, without typos, to show that you care. We all like good user interfaces and experiences in our programs. To me, the look is like the presentation layer of our own UX. Is it required for our work? Most of the times it is not, because our work depends on the logic layers, but it doesn't hurt to have a nice presentation layer. And I'm not telling about going to work in a D&G suit. EDIT: and I'm not telling that I would discriminate or think right away that someone doesn't care! I don't do that. My attitude about good looking is mono-directional; from me towards others.

raxxorrax 7y ago

I work badly with people that pronounce professionalism as a form of conduct too much to be honest. That said, my professional conduct on the technical side is always to vendor that shit if the project is of a nature that allows doing so (mostly restricted to proprietary software). Even for builds. There are harsh disadvantages with doing that if maintenance is disregarded, but these are problems you can tackle yourself instead of being dependent on third party tools working. The sheer numbers of users of NPM says that this can happen from time to time and the stability they are providing is nothing other than exceptional. Otherwise professional conduct mainly comes down to creating an atmosphere of noncommittal distance to deal with difficult personalities. I think being subjected to it for too long should disintegrate any personality, because it is completely unnatural. Hard to imagine people longing for more of that.