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I commend their effort, but I believe it should be done on an entire ecosystem level. From assembly to libraries to documents to frameworks. All of it should be

I commend their effort, but I believe it should be done on an entire ecosystem level. From assembly to libraries to documents to frameworks. All of it should be turned into Korean, French, Mandarin, Russian, etc. If the governments of major nations decided to do it in a systematic manner along with corporate and university help, it shouldn't be that difficult a task. Create it once and then your entire citizenry can use it. It's rather surprising that there isn't much effort to port "computing" to people's native language. Why should the french or arabs have to learn english to code? Imagine having to learn russian to study physics or learn korean to watch Parasite. By making english the default language of computing, every non-anglo nation disadvantages their own citizens by placing an unnecessary hurdle in front of them. How many people around the world are simply discouraged from programming because of added burden of having to learn english? How much are we losing out because of that? This might be difficult for smaller and poorer nations, but what is the excuse for germany, france, spain, japan, brazil, etc with large enough populations to justify porting "computing" for their people?

Qu3tzal 7y ago
Well, why do banks don't port all their code to recent and efficient languages? Pretty much the same here. All the code currently in use is written in English and it will take decades to completely transit from English to French computing (let's take the example of France, since I'm French). Add to that that all classes resources are for English programming languages and that to share knowledge between French, German and Russian programmers English is the only way to go. But don't be fooled, in most companies all the comments and documentation are written in French. Variables are in English because it's the only language that only use the ASCII charset. Only recent languages have the support for Unicode identifiers names. English reading comprehension (at the very least) is a mandatory skill to have in our modern world.
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > Pretty much the same here. It isn't. I'm talking about systematic change, not updating existing code. Like how latin was used to teach everything until nations decided to port religion, science, math, literature, etc to their native languages. Look at how much that changed the world. Rather than a select lucky few having access to knowledge tied to a language, it was ported and made available to all the peoples of a nation. > Add to that that all classes resources are for English programming languages and that to share knowledge between French, German and Russian programmers English is the only way to go. The only way to share knowledge is through english? So the french can't translate german and russians can't translate german? What about all the french, german and russians who don't know english? Are they supposed to languish in ignorance? > Variables are in English because it's the only language that only use the ASCII charset. Variables, keywords, the standard libraries, runtime, kernel, assembly, etc. > Only recent languages have the support for Unicode identifiers names. You make it sound like you can't change it. Like older languages are set in stone. > English reading comprehension (at the very least) is a mandatory skill to have in our modern world. This is simply not true as most of the modern world does not have basic english reading comprehension skills. And as I said, this type of thinking is holding back much of the world. And needing to have basic english reading comprehension doesn't mean that computation shouldn't be ported to one's native language. The selfish few used to keep the masses ignorant through language exclusivity ( latin ). Seems like the same thing is happening here. Maybe it's not selfishness, but laziness or learned helplessness. I know if I had to learn french in order to code, I wouldn't be a programming. And I'm sure it's the truth for the vast majority of american programmers. I think most people are similar throughout the world and having to learn a foreign language to program is an insurmountable obstacle for many.
  - Qu3tzal 7y ago
    > So the french can't translate german and russians can't translate german? You can but then it's a work to do for each language. That's how science got reinvented in multiple places before virtually all papers start to be written in English and shared in international journals. > You make it sound like you can't change it. Like older languages are set in stone. Do you suggest adding a layer of dependencies and complexity to the build systems to preprocess the source code to make it compilable by GCC/clang/Visual? And it would make sharing open-source project limited to their language speakers, until you have someone translating the project. And what happens when that person can't keep up with the pace of the original project? Just look at all the material in Chinese on Github that is just inaccessible to non-chinese speakers. All engineering schools in France require a minimum score on tests like TOEIC/TOEFL (in my school it was TOEIC 785 / 990, got raised to 800). High school graduation requires a CEFR level of B2 (even if not all students reach it) in English. > I know if I had to learn french in order to code, I wouldn't be a programming. And I'm sure it's the truth for the vast majority of american programmers. Except that a lot of the world is already exposed to English in movies, series, books, websites, memes, YouTube, work. American are not exposed to French, German, Japanese, Chinese.
    - dntbnmpls 7y ago
      > You can but then it's a work to do for each language. You make it sound like that's a bad thing. Once again, I'm not sure whether it is laziness or just learned helplessness. > That's how science got reinvented in multiple places before virtually all papers start to be written in English and shared in international journals. That's not why. It's because communication wasn't as global as it is today. And you seem to think that just because each nation/language has their own ecosystem that somehow the world will stop communicating with each other. You think english will cease to be the lingua franca of science. Nothing will really change except a lot of french people who wouldn't program in english would program in french. You can still program in english if you want. You can communicate in english. Your country would just have more options. > Do you suggest adding a layer of dependencies and complexity to the build systems to preprocess the source code to make it compilable by GCC/clang/Visual? No. Is there an added layer of dependencies and complexity to compiling languages in english? > Just look at all the material in Chinese on Github that is just inaccessible to non-chinese speakers. So translate it. What is with the helpless attitude? Do you feel helpless that russian literature is in russian and you can't read russian? No, you'd find a french translation of russian literature right? Would you rather 1.4 billion chinese be able to use the chinese material or would you rather the 1.4 billion learn english first? > American are not exposed to French, German, Japanese, Chinese. Sure, not as much, but that doesn't take away from my point. There would be far less american programmers if we had to learn another language to program. It's common sense. Do you think more americans would watch Parasite or Amelie if we had to learn korean or french first? Or more watch the movies once those movies were subtitled/dubbed in english first? All I'm saying is that porting the ecosystem into people's native languages would boost the numbers of programmers and advance technology. It won't take away from those like you who want to program in english and it certainly won't take away from dominance of the english language in international communication. Just like you can watch an american movie without subs/dubs. But most of your countrymen can't. Would you be against subbing/dubbing of english language movies to disadvantage your countrymen? I doubt it.
BlueTemplar 7y ago
It's a bit less of an issue in countries that use a Latin alphabet too...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
imtringued 7y ago
>How many people around the world are simply discouraged from programming because of added burden of having to learn English? I think that number is very very small. Learning English is something that every teenager with access to the internet is capable of.

Qu3tzal 7y ago

Well, why do banks don't port all their code to recent and efficient languages? Pretty much the same here. All the code currently in use is written in English and it will take decades to completely transit from English to French computing (let's take the example of France, since I'm French). Add to that that all classes resources are for English programming languages and that to share knowledge between French, German and Russian programmers English is the only way to go. But don't be fooled, in most companies all the comments and documentation are written in French. Variables are in English because it's the only language that only use the ASCII charset. Only recent languages have the support for Unicode identifiers names. English reading comprehension (at the very least) is a mandatory skill to have in our modern world.

dntbnmpls 7y ago
> Pretty much the same here. It isn't. I'm talking about systematic change, not updating existing code. Like how latin was used to teach everything until nations decided to port religion, science, math, literature, etc to their native languages. Look at how much that changed the world. Rather than a select lucky few having access to knowledge tied to a language, it was ported and made available to all the peoples of a nation. > Add to that that all classes resources are for English programming languages and that to share knowledge between French, German and Russian programmers English is the only way to go. The only way to share knowledge is through english? So the french can't translate german and russians can't translate german? What about all the french, german and russians who don't know english? Are they supposed to languish in ignorance? > Variables are in English because it's the only language that only use the ASCII charset. Variables, keywords, the standard libraries, runtime, kernel, assembly, etc. > Only recent languages have the support for Unicode identifiers names. You make it sound like you can't change it. Like older languages are set in stone. > English reading comprehension (at the very least) is a mandatory skill to have in our modern world. This is simply not true as most of the modern world does not have basic english reading comprehension skills. And as I said, this type of thinking is holding back much of the world. And needing to have basic english reading comprehension doesn't mean that computation shouldn't be ported to one's native language. The selfish few used to keep the masses ignorant through language exclusivity ( latin ). Seems like the same thing is happening here. Maybe it's not selfishness, but laziness or learned helplessness. I know if I had to learn french in order to code, I wouldn't be a programming. And I'm sure it's the truth for the vast majority of american programmers. I think most people are similar throughout the world and having to learn a foreign language to program is an insurmountable obstacle for many.
- Qu3tzal 7y ago
  > So the french can't translate german and russians can't translate german? You can but then it's a work to do for each language. That's how science got reinvented in multiple places before virtually all papers start to be written in English and shared in international journals. > You make it sound like you can't change it. Like older languages are set in stone. Do you suggest adding a layer of dependencies and complexity to the build systems to preprocess the source code to make it compilable by GCC/clang/Visual? And it would make sharing open-source project limited to their language speakers, until you have someone translating the project. And what happens when that person can't keep up with the pace of the original project? Just look at all the material in Chinese on Github that is just inaccessible to non-chinese speakers. All engineering schools in France require a minimum score on tests like TOEIC/TOEFL (in my school it was TOEIC 785 / 990, got raised to 800). High school graduation requires a CEFR level of B2 (even if not all students reach it) in English. > I know if I had to learn french in order to code, I wouldn't be a programming. And I'm sure it's the truth for the vast majority of american programmers. Except that a lot of the world is already exposed to English in movies, series, books, websites, memes, YouTube, work. American are not exposed to French, German, Japanese, Chinese.
  - dntbnmpls 7y ago
    > You can but then it's a work to do for each language. You make it sound like that's a bad thing. Once again, I'm not sure whether it is laziness or just learned helplessness. > That's how science got reinvented in multiple places before virtually all papers start to be written in English and shared in international journals. That's not why. It's because communication wasn't as global as it is today. And you seem to think that just because each nation/language has their own ecosystem that somehow the world will stop communicating with each other. You think english will cease to be the lingua franca of science. Nothing will really change except a lot of french people who wouldn't program in english would program in french. You can still program in english if you want. You can communicate in english. Your country would just have more options. > Do you suggest adding a layer of dependencies and complexity to the build systems to preprocess the source code to make it compilable by GCC/clang/Visual? No. Is there an added layer of dependencies and complexity to compiling languages in english? > Just look at all the material in Chinese on Github that is just inaccessible to non-chinese speakers. So translate it. What is with the helpless attitude? Do you feel helpless that russian literature is in russian and you can't read russian? No, you'd find a french translation of russian literature right? Would you rather 1.4 billion chinese be able to use the chinese material or would you rather the 1.4 billion learn english first? > American are not exposed to French, German, Japanese, Chinese. Sure, not as much, but that doesn't take away from my point. There would be far less american programmers if we had to learn another language to program. It's common sense. Do you think more americans would watch Parasite or Amelie if we had to learn korean or french first? Or more watch the movies once those movies were subtitled/dubbed in english first? All I'm saying is that porting the ecosystem into people's native languages would boost the numbers of programmers and advance technology. It won't take away from those like you who want to program in english and it certainly won't take away from dominance of the english language in international communication. Just like you can watch an american movie without subs/dubs. But most of your countrymen can't. Would you be against subbing/dubbing of english language movies to disadvantage your countrymen? I doubt it.

BlueTemplar 7y ago

It's a bit less of an issue in countries that use a Latin alphabet too...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

imtringued 7y ago

>How many people around the world are simply discouraged from programming because of added burden of having to learn English? I think that number is very very small. Learning English is something that every teenager with access to the internet is capable of.