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'documented evidence that you are failing to perform your job'. It's the same where i live. But here (nl) it basically means that you can be fired at will anywa

'documented evidence that you are failing to perform your job'. It's the same where i live. But here (nl) it basically means that you can be fired at will anyways. employers will write down their version to set up a case. lawyers dont really try these cases because their rates are high enough employees cant afford a court case. They prefer settling these cases, so you get fired, but you typically get some money. after i found that out, i did not really bother with the whole permanent contract thing at all anymore.

ekvilibrist 7y ago
You should try one of those unions, I heard they are good at these kinds of things...
- timwaagh 7y ago
  They might offer judicial support insurance as part of their membership fee. I have never looked at it, to be honest. It really depends on the price.
  - pimmen 7y ago
    In Sweden the unions are the ones who will go to court and negotiate for you because they know that if you go it will set a precedent that exposes everyone else too.
    - krageon 7y ago
      In Sweden you almost have to be part of a union, not in the least because it is right (because they dictate and negotiate your minimum wage, among other things). In the context of the Netherlands this doesn't really apply, except for specific sectors that are overwhelmingly not tech (or tech-adjacent).
krageon 7y ago
> means that you can be fired at will This is very, very wrong. What happens is that they bring it in front of an employment judge and they will decide whether or not it is right. Both sides present their argument. If you are not employed at minimum wage you can afford insurance to pay for legal costs, including those incurred in disputes between you and your employer. As for the practice of handing employees a sack of money to leave (and other, more insidious practices) - that definitely happens, but that isn't at-will employment (which would be turning the dial a few ticks up on the dystopia scale).

ekvilibrist 7y ago

You should try one of those unions, I heard they are good at these kinds of things...

timwaagh 7y ago
They might offer judicial support insurance as part of their membership fee. I have never looked at it, to be honest. It really depends on the price.
- pimmen 7y ago
  In Sweden the unions are the ones who will go to court and negotiate for you because they know that if you go it will set a precedent that exposes everyone else too.
  - krageon 7y ago
    In Sweden you almost have to be part of a union, not in the least because it is right (because they dictate and negotiate your minimum wage, among other things). In the context of the Netherlands this doesn't really apply, except for specific sectors that are overwhelmingly not tech (or tech-adjacent).

krageon 7y ago

> means that you can be fired at will This is very, very wrong. What happens is that they bring it in front of an employment judge and they will decide whether or not it is right. Both sides present their argument. If you are not employed at minimum wage you can afford insurance to pay for legal costs, including those incurred in disputes between you and your employer. As for the practice of handing employees a sack of money to leave (and other, more insidious practices) - that definitely happens, but that isn't at-will employment (which would be turning the dial a few ticks up on the dystopia scale).