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> I don't have any always-on microphones in my house, and probably never will, so I probably qualify as some kind of techno-skeptic. That you know of. Every s

> I don't have any always-on microphones in my house, and probably never will, so I probably qualify as some kind of techno-skeptic. That you know of. Every smartphone has a microphone, as do most laptops and desktops.

h4waii 7y ago
That you know of also ;) Many privacy-concious people opt for software that allows them to verifiably control their hardware, be it desktop/laptop or smartphone. Some will go the extra step to physically remove or disable microphones and speakers.
- drewbug 7y ago
  verifiably?
  - astrobe_ 7y ago
    A synonym for "open source".
    - acdha 7y ago
      Open source would only be the start: you still need to build or forensically audit each component (hardware or software) or you’re fooling yourself.
      - Fnoord 7y ago
        Reproducible builds.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > Many privacy-concious people opt for software that allows them to verifiably control their hardware, be it desktop/laptop or smartphone. I know a fair number of privacy-concious people, and not one of them have any sort of verifiable control of their hardware. It's surprisingly hard to do this, it turns out…
  - johnr2 7y ago
    > I know a fair number of privacy-concious people, and not one of them have any sort of verifiable control of their hardware. I have a reasonable level of confidence that my use of wirecutters and/or soldering iron gives me enough control over this kind of thing. It's impractical on a smartphone, but I solve that by not owning one.
DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
any visitor to our house has to put their phone into a key box next to the entrence which is shielded. it is both annoying and confusing for them the first time they visit. but I guess for them it is also a bit exciting ("what kind of a looney place did we agree to come to") ... but it makes for great conversation ... the purpose for us is less security/privacy but a way to teach my environment about these problems. It also makes for interesting conversations around screen addiction, anxiety and spending time in the moment. We still use wireless/laptop ofc and when we are among ourselves we have a rule that the phone goes in the box from 18:00 - 06:00. but for visitors there is no cell-phone in my house (this is perfect for us because we can pretty much rule out microphones/cameras being used). I understand this might sound very strange for most people here, and it is strange. But how would you feel if say in the 80ies and 90ies you invite somebody for dinner and they show up with a big camera/flash around their neck and a microphone and tape recorder. bienvenue chez moi! also my partner does use a mobile phone for work, or on the go. I don't own one.
- MathCodeLove 7y ago
  This behaviour is not only unhealthy, it's also unnecessary. What precisely do you hope to gain from this? Do you truly think that you're really depriving any observing agents of knowledge that they desperately hoped to gain? I could understand protocall like this for mental health reasons, or for the desire to be "free" from technology for a time, but you can't justify this behaviour purely with privacy concerns. They already have more than enough information on you from the remainder of the time that you spend with your device(s).
  - dillonmckay 7y ago
    Parent stated ‘the purpose for us is less security/privacy but a way to teach my environment about these problems.’ Seems more like daily Sabbath.
  - DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
    > This behaviour is not only unhealthy you misunderstood. privacy is the conversation opener but discussions around mental health are the goal. when you say it is unhealthy are you implying "devices on the dinner table are healthy?" or putting toddlers on a screen/ipad is healthy? or showing your kids that it's ok to be only half present when interacting with them is healthy? sorry I utterly missed your point.

h4waii 7y ago

That you know of also ;) Many privacy-concious people opt for software that allows them to verifiably control their hardware, be it desktop/laptop or smartphone. Some will go the extra step to physically remove or disable microphones and speakers.

drewbug 7y ago
verifiably?
- astrobe_ 7y ago
  A synonym for "open source".
  - acdha 7y ago
    Open source would only be the start: you still need to build or forensically audit each component (hardware or software) or you’re fooling yourself.
    - Fnoord 7y ago
      Reproducible builds.
saagarjha 7y ago
> Many privacy-concious people opt for software that allows them to verifiably control their hardware, be it desktop/laptop or smartphone. I know a fair number of privacy-concious people, and not one of them have any sort of verifiable control of their hardware. It's surprisingly hard to do this, it turns out…
- johnr2 7y ago
  > I know a fair number of privacy-concious people, and not one of them have any sort of verifiable control of their hardware. I have a reasonable level of confidence that my use of wirecutters and/or soldering iron gives me enough control over this kind of thing. It's impractical on a smartphone, but I solve that by not owning one.

DyslexicAtheist 7y ago

any visitor to our house has to put their phone into a key box next to the entrence which is shielded. it is both annoying and confusing for them the first time they visit. but I guess for them it is also a bit exciting ("what kind of a looney place did we agree to come to") ... but it makes for great conversation ... the purpose for us is less security/privacy but a way to teach my environment about these problems. It also makes for interesting conversations around screen addiction, anxiety and spending time in the moment. We still use wireless/laptop ofc and when we are among ourselves we have a rule that the phone goes in the box from 18:00 - 06:00. but for visitors there is no cell-phone in my house (this is perfect for us because we can pretty much rule out microphones/cameras being used). I understand this might sound very strange for most people here, and it is strange. But how would you feel if say in the 80ies and 90ies you invite somebody for dinner and they show up with a big camera/flash around their neck and a microphone and tape recorder. bienvenue chez moi! also my partner does use a mobile phone for work, or on the go. I don't own one.

MathCodeLove 7y ago
This behaviour is not only unhealthy, it's also unnecessary. What precisely do you hope to gain from this? Do you truly think that you're really depriving any observing agents of knowledge that they desperately hoped to gain? I could understand protocall like this for mental health reasons, or for the desire to be "free" from technology for a time, but you can't justify this behaviour purely with privacy concerns. They already have more than enough information on you from the remainder of the time that you spend with your device(s).
- dillonmckay 7y ago
  Parent stated ‘the purpose for us is less security/privacy but a way to teach my environment about these problems.’ Seems more like daily Sabbath.
- DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
  > This behaviour is not only unhealthy you misunderstood. privacy is the conversation opener but discussions around mental health are the goal. when you say it is unhealthy are you implying "devices on the dinner table are healthy?" or putting toddlers on a screen/ipad is healthy? or showing your kids that it's ok to be only half present when interacting with them is healthy? sorry I utterly missed your point.