7 ms·

Are black and female software engineers in USA right now the demographic that really needs helping? Im not American, so I probably need clarification, but what

by j7ake 7y ago

Are black and female software engineers in USA right now the demographic that really needs helping? Im not American, so I probably need clarification, but what is their current situation compared to white males in the same position at a company?

senordevnyc 7y ago
Many people certainly seem to think so. I’d be a little surprised myself if the answer was no. Anecdotally speaking, they certainly seem underrepresented, but I’m less sure about current pay disparity.
- j7ake 7y ago
  Thanks for the info, I guess I should read more into it and educate myself.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    I really hate meta discussions, but that being said, I’m going to do it anyway. It’s rare on a discussion forum that a thread goes from - righteous indignation - clarifying non insulting reply - reply with a genuine question - reply with a genuine answer. - the original poster admits that they should learn more. I had to commend both of you.
    - senordevnyc 7y ago
      It’s really rare when I’m involved but I’m trying to do better :)
    - iamben 7y ago
      Yeah, this kind of thing is what's kept me returning (daily) to HN for the last ten years, and only sporadically using Reddit etc.
theredlion 7y ago
That's an interesting question. I'm personally aware of several large companies in my area which, due to diversity pressure, blatantly discriminate in favor of minorities and women. The performance required from a white man in an interview for the same job is higher. That is to say that a white man will be openly discarded in favor of a minority/woman with a similar background when applying for the same job. This is a common occurrence.
- senordevnyc 7y ago
  Do you have any evidence for this? Have you seen data covering hiring evals for many different candidates? Or is this just your own bias telling a story based on anecdotes and rumors? I’m not saying this never happens, but it’s much easier to tell yourself that the reason you didn’t get a job was because of some unfair factor beyond your control than to admit maybe you just failed to meet the bar.
  - theredlion 7y ago
    I know a lot of people. This is based on conversations with those involved in the hiring process at various companies. They are proud of it and see it as not only a plus, but a social benefit, which causes people to be very boastfully vocal in social situations Very strange time we live in. I do agree with your second paragraph, but this isn't regarding anything that has happened to me personally
    - senordevnyc 7y ago
      Oh, we’re trading anecdotes? Well, I know a lot of people, including many involved in hiring at various large tech companies, including myself. I’m sure they have programs to encourage diversity in hiring, but I seriously doubt they’re telling you they “blatantly discriminate” against white men and that white men have to perform much better in an interview in order to be hired. That’s an incomplete and simplistic story.
      - theredlion 7y ago
adamsea 7y ago
They often - or maybe even usually - get paid less for the same work. Plenty of studies and articles out there discussing this from both sides (saying it happens, saying it doesn’t) so imho google is the best way to go if you are curious.
metalforever 7y ago
Females definitely make less across the board. I want to say around 80 percent of the time , and it’s usually because of HR, not the engineering team.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
LadyCailin 7y ago
Even if they aren’t, disclosing salaries can find who does need help.
paxys 7y ago
Absolutely. And it isn't always about discrimination. People who consider themselves outsiders in the field will usually jump on the first offer they get, while the expected practice would be to get multiple offers and negotiate. They will also not ask for raises and promotions as much as their co-workers. Both of these result in a sizable disparity in salary, even though they may be higher performing than their co-workers. Seeing a list of "here's what people around you are making" is VERY helpful to give one the confidence to finally ask for that raise they deserve.

by j7ake 7y ago

senordevnyc 7y ago

Many people certainly seem to think so. I’d be a little surprised myself if the answer was no. Anecdotally speaking, they certainly seem underrepresented, but I’m less sure about current pay disparity.

j7ake 7y ago
Thanks for the info, I guess I should read more into it and educate myself.
- scarface74 7y ago
  I really hate meta discussions, but that being said, I’m going to do it anyway. It’s rare on a discussion forum that a thread goes from - righteous indignation - clarifying non insulting reply - reply with a genuine question - reply with a genuine answer. - the original poster admits that they should learn more. I had to commend both of you.
  - senordevnyc 7y ago
    It’s really rare when I’m involved but I’m trying to do better :)
  - iamben 7y ago
    Yeah, this kind of thing is what's kept me returning (daily) to HN for the last ten years, and only sporadically using Reddit etc.

theredlion 7y ago

That's an interesting question. I'm personally aware of several large companies in my area which, due to diversity pressure, blatantly discriminate in favor of minorities and women. The performance required from a white man in an interview for the same job is higher. That is to say that a white man will be openly discarded in favor of a minority/woman with a similar background when applying for the same job. This is a common occurrence.

senordevnyc 7y ago
Do you have any evidence for this? Have you seen data covering hiring evals for many different candidates? Or is this just your own bias telling a story based on anecdotes and rumors? I’m not saying this never happens, but it’s much easier to tell yourself that the reason you didn’t get a job was because of some unfair factor beyond your control than to admit maybe you just failed to meet the bar.
- theredlion 7y ago
  I know a lot of people. This is based on conversations with those involved in the hiring process at various companies. They are proud of it and see it as not only a plus, but a social benefit, which causes people to be very boastfully vocal in social situations Very strange time we live in. I do agree with your second paragraph, but this isn't regarding anything that has happened to me personally
  - senordevnyc 7y ago
    Oh, we’re trading anecdotes? Well, I know a lot of people, including many involved in hiring at various large tech companies, including myself. I’m sure they have programs to encourage diversity in hiring, but I seriously doubt they’re telling you they “blatantly discriminate” against white men and that white men have to perform much better in an interview in order to be hired. That’s an incomplete and simplistic story.
    - theredlion 7y ago

adamsea 7y ago

They often - or maybe even usually - get paid less for the same work. Plenty of studies and articles out there discussing this from both sides (saying it happens, saying it doesn’t) so imho google is the best way to go if you are curious.

metalforever 7y ago

Females definitely make less across the board. I want to say around 80 percent of the time , and it’s usually because of HR, not the engineering team.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

LadyCailin 7y ago

Even if they aren’t, disclosing salaries can find who does need help.

paxys 7y ago

Absolutely. And it isn't always about discrimination. People who consider themselves outsiders in the field will usually jump on the first offer they get, while the expected practice would be to get multiple offers and negotiate. They will also not ask for raises and promotions as much as their co-workers. Both of these result in a sizable disparity in salary, even though they may be higher performing than their co-workers. Seeing a list of "here's what people around you are making" is VERY helpful to give one the confidence to finally ask for that raise they deserve.