7 ms·

In "defrags" like this, Google does not lay off people outright, it just tells them their job is going away and they have X months to find a new one within Goog

In "defrags" like this, Google does not lay off people outright, it just tells them their job is going away and they have X months to find a new one within Google -- and they usually do.

danans 7y ago
I've personally been through this twice at Google. The company definitely provides a very attentive set of resources to help you find a new position within the company, but I've always been able to find a new project on my own. That said, the more flexibility you have the easier it is to find a new position. This naturally favors some people over others. In my most recent case, it ended up being a bit more challenging due to having to balance the constraints of family life versus the opportunities availed by an extremely arduous commute, but I ended up finding a project I enjoy that works with my commute constraints.
- onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
  So... Like... What do you do in the interim? Not work, look for teams, and still get paid a shit ton of money? Do you do some training on the side? Work on a side project? How long does it take to find the new team?
  - sdenton4 7y ago
    From the couple people I know who have done this, I think it's pretty choose-your-own-adventure... Get paid to look for your new job, with very few actual responsibilities. It's worthwhile to compare this relative downtime to ramp-up time for new hires... who also generally spend a couple-few months being fairly useless (though working hard at it). And googlers being googlers, there's a decent chance that the 'down' time turns into interesting learning or side project time.
    - wyclif 7y ago
      So...it's kind of like being Big Head working at Hooli? Hanging out on the roof, or building potato guns and piezoelectric sensors?
      - dvirsky 7y ago
        Finding a new role inside the company actually requires some work though.
      - discordance 7y ago
        This practice isn’t uncommon. In some cases, I’ve seen FAANGMs give people up to 6 months of ‘window viewing’ time to find new jobs
        Macha 7y ago
        After a recent merger at my employer, had some people in of the teams at my office with very little responsibilities for most of a year. The first six months they had minimal work because the company hadn't told them yet they were dropping them for a competing team on the other side of the merger, then they did inform them and gave them 3 months to find a new role in the company and apart from the odd production incident on their system, there was basically no work incoming to their former team. I think 3-4 moved within the company, 3 left on their own time before the deadline, and 4 waited out for the redundancy payment.
      - paxys 7y ago
        Finding a job can itself be a full time job though
      - WoahNoun 7y ago
        Lots of networking over coffee. You don't just blindly apply on the internal job board. You talk to people you know in other parts of the company, you schedule meetings with managers with open roles. You reflect on what you actually want to do next. You reach out to mentors on if they know anyone who has interesting open roles or just on advice for next steps. Also interviewing with other companies. The next best job for you may not be with Google even if you could easily get an internal transfer role. And teams don't just blindly accept you because you already work at Google (although it helps). You still have to go through a somewhat more informal interview loop that you will definitely want to prepare for. Of course this is up to the individual, you can definitely just screw around for awhile and apply for an interal role with much less care.
  - tdhoot 7y ago
    When I saw this at Google, the employee had 60-90 paid days to find something new within the company. Some people waited til the last few weeks to find something because they essentially got two months paid vacation.
  - formercoder 7y ago
    Keep in mind this is going to screw your performance rating / bonus / promotion situation. You’re incentivized to love fast.
    - K0SM0S 7y ago
      Yes, love fast and make things. An engineer's ethos.
      - joejerryronnie 7y ago
        Google engineers - single-handedly increasing the bay area's birth rates Edit: Wow, just realized that could be a veiled reference to artificial insemination
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - birdyrooster 7y ago
    I took a vacation to Tokyo on a whim when I heard about my defrag. Checked out Google Tokyo (just have to find a Googler near the tower in Rappongi willing to take you up where your badge can matter) and enjoyed another month or so of relaxation back here before starting a new job at a different company. In my case, they were paying a multiplier of my salary due to the circumstances of my "defrag". In all I was paid an entire years salary in one quarter while I enjoyed a sabbatical.
- mikelward 7y ago
  This is why I live and work in Sunnyvale, and rejected offers to move elsewhere. I've worked away from the head office at other companies, and it's limiting.
  - dkdk8283 7y ago
    I left Sunnyvale (and the bay area) never looking back. I worked on Castro in MV and it was a 30 min drive 9 years ago. For me the quality of life is so much better outside of SV.
filoleg 7y ago
This is a very smart tactic that also, as a side effect, brings the average quality across all engineers at the company up. Smart people with desirable skills would have no problem finding another team within Google to transfer to, while bottom tier performers won’t, thus leaving Google.
- downerending 7y ago
  It'd be interesting to study. My intuition is that over the long term it'd cut in the opposite direction--smart people will move on while bottom tier will linger as long as possible.
  - killjoywashere 7y ago
    I've heard this where the Big Head meme from Silicon Valley comes from.
  - formercoder 7y ago
    Smart is the wrong word - more like savvy googlers usually have an internal network and know what teams are hot. They move on quickly.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    Bottom tier can't linger long if they have 90 days to find a new job or get fired.
  - robk 7y ago
    In my experience the best leave at the first redeployment. Each subsequent buyout the smarter ones leave, it's rarely the crap people that take a buyout or leave altogether.
- dbcurtis 7y ago
  On the other side, the company can create a nice "market" by tuning it correctly. When I was at Intel, it was relatively easy to get an internal hiring req, and relatively difficult to get an external one. And... the total number of internal hiring reqs was allowed to over-subscribe the total authorized head count. Coupled with a rule that no manager could block an internal transfer for more than a couple of weeks of clean-up, the net effect was that there was a certain amount of "hole flow", and you could always identify a bad manager by the vacuum that surrounded them. Overall, I thought that was brilliant. As to people on re-deployment, it did happen that poor performers had a hard time landing a new role -- but then again, they would have had a hard time staying in the company in their old role, so that kind of fits your point. But Intel didn't use redeployment as a "shadow RIF". Intel was not shy about moving people out of the company -- they didn't need to nor bother to hide it. Back to redeployment -- I can remember occasions of fairly large redeployments (business unit shutting down) where those of us in parts of the company considered more strategic would find ourselves suddenly rich in hiring reqs. Again, the company created the right market conditions and let the hiring managers and employees sort it out.

In "defrags" like this, Google does not lay off people outright, it just tells them their job is going away and they have X months to find a new one within Google -- and they usually do.

danans 7y ago

I've personally been through this twice at Google. The company definitely provides a very attentive set of resources to help you find a new position within the company, but I've always been able to find a new project on my own. That said, the more flexibility you have the easier it is to find a new position. This naturally favors some people over others. In my most recent case, it ended up being a bit more challenging due to having to balance the constraints of family life versus the opportunities availed by an extremely arduous commute, but I ended up finding a project I enjoy that works with my commute constraints.

onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
So... Like... What do you do in the interim? Not work, look for teams, and still get paid a shit ton of money? Do you do some training on the side? Work on a side project? How long does it take to find the new team?
- sdenton4 7y ago
  From the couple people I know who have done this, I think it's pretty choose-your-own-adventure... Get paid to look for your new job, with very few actual responsibilities. It's worthwhile to compare this relative downtime to ramp-up time for new hires... who also generally spend a couple-few months being fairly useless (though working hard at it). And googlers being googlers, there's a decent chance that the 'down' time turns into interesting learning or side project time.
  - wyclif 7y ago
    So...it's kind of like being Big Head working at Hooli? Hanging out on the roof, or building potato guns and piezoelectric sensors?
    - dvirsky 7y ago
      Finding a new role inside the company actually requires some work though.
    - discordance 7y ago
      This practice isn’t uncommon. In some cases, I’ve seen FAANGMs give people up to 6 months of ‘window viewing’ time to find new jobs
      - Macha 7y ago
        After a recent merger at my employer, had some people in of the teams at my office with very little responsibilities for most of a year. The first six months they had minimal work because the company hadn't told them yet they were dropping them for a competing team on the other side of the merger, then they did inform them and gave them 3 months to find a new role in the company and apart from the odd production incident on their system, there was basically no work incoming to their former team. I think 3-4 moved within the company, 3 left on their own time before the deadline, and 4 waited out for the redundancy payment.
    - paxys 7y ago
      Finding a job can itself be a full time job though
    - WoahNoun 7y ago
      Lots of networking over coffee. You don't just blindly apply on the internal job board. You talk to people you know in other parts of the company, you schedule meetings with managers with open roles. You reflect on what you actually want to do next. You reach out to mentors on if they know anyone who has interesting open roles or just on advice for next steps. Also interviewing with other companies. The next best job for you may not be with Google even if you could easily get an internal transfer role. And teams don't just blindly accept you because you already work at Google (although it helps). You still have to go through a somewhat more informal interview loop that you will definitely want to prepare for. Of course this is up to the individual, you can definitely just screw around for awhile and apply for an interal role with much less care.
- tdhoot 7y ago
  When I saw this at Google, the employee had 60-90 paid days to find something new within the company. Some people waited til the last few weeks to find something because they essentially got two months paid vacation.
- formercoder 7y ago
  Keep in mind this is going to screw your performance rating / bonus / promotion situation. You’re incentivized to love fast.
  - K0SM0S 7y ago
    Yes, love fast and make things. An engineer's ethos.
    - joejerryronnie 7y ago
      Google engineers - single-handedly increasing the bay area's birth rates Edit: Wow, just realized that could be a veiled reference to artificial insemination
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- birdyrooster 7y ago
  I took a vacation to Tokyo on a whim when I heard about my defrag. Checked out Google Tokyo (just have to find a Googler near the tower in Rappongi willing to take you up where your badge can matter) and enjoyed another month or so of relaxation back here before starting a new job at a different company. In my case, they were paying a multiplier of my salary due to the circumstances of my "defrag". In all I was paid an entire years salary in one quarter while I enjoyed a sabbatical.
mikelward 7y ago
This is why I live and work in Sunnyvale, and rejected offers to move elsewhere. I've worked away from the head office at other companies, and it's limiting.
- dkdk8283 7y ago
  I left Sunnyvale (and the bay area) never looking back. I worked on Castro in MV and it was a 30 min drive 9 years ago. For me the quality of life is so much better outside of SV.

filoleg 7y ago

This is a very smart tactic that also, as a side effect, brings the average quality across all engineers at the company up. Smart people with desirable skills would have no problem finding another team within Google to transfer to, while bottom tier performers won’t, thus leaving Google.

downerending 7y ago
It'd be interesting to study. My intuition is that over the long term it'd cut in the opposite direction--smart people will move on while bottom tier will linger as long as possible.
- killjoywashere 7y ago
  I've heard this where the Big Head meme from Silicon Valley comes from.
- formercoder 7y ago
  Smart is the wrong word - more like savvy googlers usually have an internal network and know what teams are hot. They move on quickly.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Bottom tier can't linger long if they have 90 days to find a new job or get fired.
- robk 7y ago
  In my experience the best leave at the first redeployment. Each subsequent buyout the smarter ones leave, it's rarely the crap people that take a buyout or leave altogether.
dbcurtis 7y ago
On the other side, the company can create a nice "market" by tuning it correctly. When I was at Intel, it was relatively easy to get an internal hiring req, and relatively difficult to get an external one. And... the total number of internal hiring reqs was allowed to over-subscribe the total authorized head count. Coupled with a rule that no manager could block an internal transfer for more than a couple of weeks of clean-up, the net effect was that there was a certain amount of "hole flow", and you could always identify a bad manager by the vacuum that surrounded them. Overall, I thought that was brilliant. As to people on re-deployment, it did happen that poor performers had a hard time landing a new role -- but then again, they would have had a hard time staying in the company in their old role, so that kind of fits your point. But Intel didn't use redeployment as a "shadow RIF". Intel was not shy about moving people out of the company -- they didn't need to nor bother to hide it. Back to redeployment -- I can remember occasions of fairly large redeployments (business unit shutting down) where those of us in parts of the company considered more strategic would find ourselves suddenly rich in hiring reqs. Again, the company created the right market conditions and let the hiring managers and employees sort it out.