5 ms·

> I was wondering why Signal hadn't caught on more. Signal would have to be much better with features everyone (not just the tech-savvy) can appreciate to be a

by jolmg 7y ago

> I was wondering why Signal hadn't caught on more. Signal would have to be much better with features everyone (not just the tech-savvy) can appreciate to be able to outweigh Whatsapp's network effect.

dmix 7y ago
There's only a finite amount of 'features' a messenger can really have, I don't think it's going to work like that at all. If Signal can reach feature parity with WhatsApp/FB Messenger/iMessage it already offers a massive advantage that's getting more and more popular and it sounds like it is already close to reaching parity. The biggest win for Signal (although not for the general public) is if WhatsApp ever compromises on their E2E adoption. Because right now there isn't a significant reason to switch between the two given WhatsApps massive adoption. One unique feature advantage might be the encrypted contacts stuff they mention in the article, but even then that just keeps them at the top tier privacy wise.
- IshKebab 7y ago
  I think the point is that most people barely even know what encryption is. They definitely know what end to end encryption is and they don't care. Signal needs so feature that normal people care about to get them to switch from WhatsApp. Not only that - it needs a feature so amazing it trumps WhatsApp's "can communicate with everyone" feature - i.e. everyone uses WhatsApp. That's going to be insanely hard, if not downright impossible. They may have a chance in America I guess.
  - octorian 7y ago
    They definitely don't know what end to end encryption is FTFY Seriously, look at the comments on any discussion about some app deploying end-to-end encryption, or having any sort of security issue/change. Its clear that most people simply don't know the difference between "transport encryption" (device-to-server) and "end-to-end encryption" (device-to-device) (and often move the goalposts to cover on-device data at rest too, often out of confusion).
Seenso 7y ago
> Signal would have to be much better with features everyone (not just the tech-savvy) can appreciate to be able to outweigh Whatsapp's network effect. Network effects work both ways, and they're only an insurmountable barrier if you preemtively surrender to them. They're also predominantly built of local components, which allows the change to start small by influencing those smaller groups. For instance, if the tech-savvy switch to Signal and boycott WhatsApp, you'd have the nucleus of a network effect starting to work in Signal's favor. Some political constituencies would probably find Signal's non-profit organization specially appealing, and could also help form that nucleus. Social behavior can also start help reenforce and accelerate a more general change. If WhatsApp is treated as unfashionable and dated, while Signal is treated as fashionable and new, some people will be more motivated to switch. Everyone already uses multiple messaging apps (unless they stick to plain SMS). I doubt we will ever converge on one. However, success for Signal would be encouraging enough people to have it installed that it doesn't have any special friction associated with it.
- heartbeats 7y ago
  I believe the term you're looking for is 'micronetwork'[0]. This is how Wickr gained use: a certain segment of the population found it very useful, even if it couldn't be used for all their friends. Signal misses out on this by not offering anonymous user accounts, but otherwise they would have a very clear path to mass adoption. [0]: https://www.nickkolenda.com/pdf/viral-marketing.pdf https://www.nickkolenda.com/pdf/viral-marketing.pdf
mrgreenfur 7y ago
Agreed; they are adding them now and just released 'stickers'.
- gaius_baltar 7y ago
  Interesting. Is there a way to import Telegram sticker packs into Signal? Or convert them automatically? There is an enormous amount of these packs readily available on Telegram but lacking on Signal, after all.
  - distances 7y ago
    https://signalstickers.com/ https://signalstickers.com/ Basically has all non-animated Telegram stickers. Easiest way to find is to search by name if you have some favourite packs.
nickik 7y ago
The common criticim against Signal is that they constantly add features that 'everyone' wants but they don't fix the problem the 'tech-savvy' people want. Signup without phone-numbers and so on.

by jolmg 7y ago

dmix 7y ago

There's only a finite amount of 'features' a messenger can really have, I don't think it's going to work like that at all. If Signal can reach feature parity with WhatsApp/FB Messenger/iMessage it already offers a massive advantage that's getting more and more popular and it sounds like it is already close to reaching parity. The biggest win for Signal (although not for the general public) is if WhatsApp ever compromises on their E2E adoption. Because right now there isn't a significant reason to switch between the two given WhatsApps massive adoption. One unique feature advantage might be the encrypted contacts stuff they mention in the article, but even then that just keeps them at the top tier privacy wise.

IshKebab 7y ago
I think the point is that most people barely even know what encryption is. They definitely know what end to end encryption is and they don't care. Signal needs so feature that normal people care about to get them to switch from WhatsApp. Not only that - it needs a feature so amazing it trumps WhatsApp's "can communicate with everyone" feature - i.e. everyone uses WhatsApp. That's going to be insanely hard, if not downright impossible. They may have a chance in America I guess.
- octorian 7y ago
  They definitely don't know what end to end encryption is FTFY Seriously, look at the comments on any discussion about some app deploying end-to-end encryption, or having any sort of security issue/change. Its clear that most people simply don't know the difference between "transport encryption" (device-to-server) and "end-to-end encryption" (device-to-device) (and often move the goalposts to cover on-device data at rest too, often out of confusion).

Seenso 7y ago

> Signal would have to be much better with features everyone (not just the tech-savvy) can appreciate to be able to outweigh Whatsapp's network effect. Network effects work both ways, and they're only an insurmountable barrier if you preemtively surrender to them. They're also predominantly built of local components, which allows the change to start small by influencing those smaller groups. For instance, if the tech-savvy switch to Signal and boycott WhatsApp, you'd have the nucleus of a network effect starting to work in Signal's favor. Some political constituencies would probably find Signal's non-profit organization specially appealing, and could also help form that nucleus. Social behavior can also start help reenforce and accelerate a more general change. If WhatsApp is treated as unfashionable and dated, while Signal is treated as fashionable and new, some people will be more motivated to switch. Everyone already uses multiple messaging apps (unless they stick to plain SMS). I doubt we will ever converge on one. However, success for Signal would be encouraging enough people to have it installed that it doesn't have any special friction associated with it.

heartbeats 7y ago
I believe the term you're looking for is 'micronetwork'[0]. This is how Wickr gained use: a certain segment of the population found it very useful, even if it couldn't be used for all their friends. Signal misses out on this by not offering anonymous user accounts, but otherwise they would have a very clear path to mass adoption. [0]: https://www.nickkolenda.com/pdf/viral-marketing.pdf https://www.nickkolenda.com/pdf/viral-marketing.pdf

mrgreenfur 7y ago

Agreed; they are adding them now and just released 'stickers'.

gaius_baltar 7y ago
Interesting. Is there a way to import Telegram sticker packs into Signal? Or convert them automatically? There is an enormous amount of these packs readily available on Telegram but lacking on Signal, after all.
- distances 7y ago
  https://signalstickers.com/ https://signalstickers.com/ Basically has all non-animated Telegram stickers. Easiest way to find is to search by name if you have some favourite packs.

nickik 7y ago

The common criticim against Signal is that they constantly add features that 'everyone' wants but they don't fix the problem the 'tech-savvy' people want. Signup without phone-numbers and so on.