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I was wondering why Signal hadn't caught on more. I only use it with a few people. I had no idea it was still in such heavy development! It may be a tough sell.

I was wondering why Signal hadn't caught on more. I only use it with a few people. I had no idea it was still in such heavy development! It may be a tough sell. There are many countries where WhatsApp is the default form of communication and has been for years.

Y-bar 7y ago
I stopped using Signal when it was clear i was not able to back up my message history (or transfer it to a new phone). My data is my data and I should be able to access and control it.
- DCKing 7y ago
  Huh, but Signal does allow you to this [0]? It doesn't allow you to do this on iOS, but I'm guessing your stance on data portability makes your life very hard on iOS anyway. [0]: https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...
  - djrogers 7y ago
    > I'm guessing your stance on data portability makes your life very hard on iOS anyway. Pretty much all of the data in the stock apps on my iPhone is easily portable, and most of it is API accessible, meaning I can use multiple apps to view and manipulate it. Apple even publishes a support doc on how to export your data using first-party tools. For any more complex needs, there are plenty of easily accessible 3rd party options. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204055 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204055
  - samatman 7y ago
    On the contrary, the vast majority of iPhone apps use iCloud and offer data export in addition to recovery/transfer to a new device. Signal is an outlier in this respect, and I hope they add this feature before I'm ready for another phone.
  - novia 7y ago
    Has anyone had success in actually restoring their conversations from the signal backup? I'm on Android and reinstalled the app once when it was causing me trouble (it especially lags with group chats) thinking I'd be able to restore my chats no problem. Unfortunately, even though I had the passcode to unencrypt the backup saved, it didn't restore a single message.
    - petschge 7y ago
      Yes, I have done so successfully. As well as moved devices.
      - iudqnolq 7y ago
        How? I don't see any restore option.
        climb_stealth 7y ago
        Last time I did it, you had to place the backup in the correct folder before the first start of the app. See the Signal faq. It is not the most user friendly approach, but it has been going through iterations and getting better.
        iudqnolq 7y ago
        Thank you!
    - iudqnolq 7y ago
      I've dumped them to media and plain text with Signal-Back. I'm pretty sure that's all they offer. Edit: last part is wrong, see sibling https://github.com/xeals/signal-back/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/xeals/signal-back/blob/master/README.md
    - parliament32 7y ago
      I've done it across three phones so far, works great. The flow is a bit weird though, you need to put the backup in the Signal folder before you start the app for the first time (before it tries to re-register) and it'll ask for the key and import happily.
  - mopsi 7y ago
    There's a workaround. If you use the iOS app in combination with a desktop client, then it is possible to back up messages, assuming they have been synced to the computer. On Windows: 1. Download DB Browser for SQLite https://sqlitebrowser.org/ https://sqlitebrowser.org/ 2. Unpack it and run DB Browser for SQLCipher.exe. 3. Open database, select %APPDATA%\Signal\sql\db.sqlite. 4. In the following dialog, select Raw key type and enter the encryption key stored in %APPDATA%\Signal\config.json into Password field (prefix it with 0x). 5. Now you can work with the database, including exporting its contents to unencrypted SQLite, CSV and JSON. The process should be similar on other platforms.
    - faitswulff 7y ago
      Thanks so much for posting this!
  - Y-bar 7y ago
    > I'm guessing your stance on data portability makes your life very hard on iOS anyway. I have zero understanding why you would ask this. Every single first party and third party app other than Signal on iOS allow me to include its data in backups and/or export it’s data.
  - dannyw 7y ago
    I can export data from every other app I use on iOS, barring Signal.
- thatcat 7y ago
  That's more of an ios problem
  - chimeracoder 7y ago
    > That's more of an ios problem Ah, so only a problem for 40% of Signal users. There's no technical reason that prevents Signal from doing this; they simply haven't.
    - pas 7y ago
      Can they encrypt it properly? I'm not familiar with how iOS/Apple backup works and how it guarantees that only the user can restore it.
      - chimeracoder 7y ago
        > Can they encrypt it properly? I'm not familiar with how iOS/Apple backup works and how it guarantees that only the user can restore it. Signal backups on Android used to be entirely unencrypted(!), so that hasn't stopped them before.
  - samatman 7y ago
    It's a Signal on iOS problem. Backing up and restoring data to new devices is the norm for iOS apps generally.
  - izacus 7y ago
    No, it isn't - even on Android it requires you to manually manage the backup files, write down a huge random string and then manually setup sync. My circle stopped using Signal when it became apparent that dying/lost/stolen phone also means complete destruction of all memories they store in the conversations (unless you go through a lot of hoops to get autobackup working). It's pretty much the only chat app of the more marketed ones that will lose all your personal data.
    - anigbrowl 7y ago
- tyfon 7y ago
  I've set Signal to auto-delete old messages. This is like SMS and IRC not an archive. When I want to save something from a conversation in Signal (or slack or email), I copy it out and store it. Signal does not block you accessing your data. In addition you actually do have an import/export function for your messages if you're on android [1]. [1] https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...
  - distances 7y ago
    People have different stances. I do have archives of all my IRC chats too, all the way from the 90s.
- otachack 7y ago
  You can on Android but not on iPhone apparently. https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages#ios_restore https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...
- Seenso 7y ago
  > I stopped using Signal when it was clear i was not able to back up my message history (or transfer it to a new phone). You can do that on Android.
- rabboRubble 7y ago
  Probably an encouragement to use the disappearing messages feature. It's a peaceful feeling to let data just evaporate without worrying about backing it up. If something is really so important that I can't let it go poof, I'll take a screen shot or save it as a photo/note.
jolmg 7y ago
> I was wondering why Signal hadn't caught on more. Signal would have to be much better with features everyone (not just the tech-savvy) can appreciate to be able to outweigh Whatsapp's network effect.
- dmix 7y ago
  There's only a finite amount of 'features' a messenger can really have, I don't think it's going to work like that at all. If Signal can reach feature parity with WhatsApp/FB Messenger/iMessage it already offers a massive advantage that's getting more and more popular and it sounds like it is already close to reaching parity. The biggest win for Signal (although not for the general public) is if WhatsApp ever compromises on their E2E adoption. Because right now there isn't a significant reason to switch between the two given WhatsApps massive adoption. One unique feature advantage might be the encrypted contacts stuff they mention in the article, but even then that just keeps them at the top tier privacy wise.
  - IshKebab 7y ago
    I think the point is that most people barely even know what encryption is. They definitely know what end to end encryption is and they don't care. Signal needs so feature that normal people care about to get them to switch from WhatsApp. Not only that - it needs a feature so amazing it trumps WhatsApp's "can communicate with everyone" feature - i.e. everyone uses WhatsApp. That's going to be insanely hard, if not downright impossible. They may have a chance in America I guess.
    - octorian 7y ago
      They definitely don't know what end to end encryption is FTFY Seriously, look at the comments on any discussion about some app deploying end-to-end encryption, or having any sort of security issue/change. Its clear that most people simply don't know the difference between "transport encryption" (device-to-server) and "end-to-end encryption" (device-to-device) (and often move the goalposts to cover on-device data at rest too, often out of confusion).
- 7y ago
rurounijones 7y ago
> I was wondering why Signal hadn't caught on more. Network effect of existing apps and no "Killer feature" for Signal that the layman cares about (Better privacy is not it).

Y-bar 7y ago

I stopped using Signal when it was clear i was not able to back up my message history (or transfer it to a new phone). My data is my data and I should be able to access and control it.

DCKing 7y ago
Huh, but Signal does allow you to this [0]? It doesn't allow you to do this on iOS, but I'm guessing your stance on data portability makes your life very hard on iOS anyway. [0]: https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...
- djrogers 7y ago
  > I'm guessing your stance on data portability makes your life very hard on iOS anyway. Pretty much all of the data in the stock apps on my iPhone is easily portable, and most of it is API accessible, meaning I can use multiple apps to view and manipulate it. Apple even publishes a support doc on how to export your data using first-party tools. For any more complex needs, there are plenty of easily accessible 3rd party options. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204055 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204055
- samatman 7y ago
  On the contrary, the vast majority of iPhone apps use iCloud and offer data export in addition to recovery/transfer to a new device. Signal is an outlier in this respect, and I hope they add this feature before I'm ready for another phone.
- novia 7y ago
  Has anyone had success in actually restoring their conversations from the signal backup? I'm on Android and reinstalled the app once when it was causing me trouble (it especially lags with group chats) thinking I'd be able to restore my chats no problem. Unfortunately, even though I had the passcode to unencrypt the backup saved, it didn't restore a single message.
  - petschge 7y ago
    Yes, I have done so successfully. As well as moved devices.
    - iudqnolq 7y ago
      How? I don't see any restore option.
      - climb_stealth 7y ago
        Last time I did it, you had to place the backup in the correct folder before the first start of the app. See the Signal faq. It is not the most user friendly approach, but it has been going through iterations and getting better.
        iudqnolq 7y ago
        Thank you!
  - iudqnolq 7y ago
    I've dumped them to media and plain text with Signal-Back. I'm pretty sure that's all they offer. Edit: last part is wrong, see sibling https://github.com/xeals/signal-back/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/xeals/signal-back/blob/master/README.md
  - parliament32 7y ago
    I've done it across three phones so far, works great. The flow is a bit weird though, you need to put the backup in the Signal folder before you start the app for the first time (before it tries to re-register) and it'll ask for the key and import happily.
- mopsi 7y ago
  There's a workaround. If you use the iOS app in combination with a desktop client, then it is possible to back up messages, assuming they have been synced to the computer. On Windows: 1. Download DB Browser for SQLite https://sqlitebrowser.org/ https://sqlitebrowser.org/ 2. Unpack it and run DB Browser for SQLCipher.exe. 3. Open database, select %APPDATA%\Signal\sql\db.sqlite. 4. In the following dialog, select Raw key type and enter the encryption key stored in %APPDATA%\Signal\config.json into Password field (prefix it with 0x). 5. Now you can work with the database, including exporting its contents to unencrypted SQLite, CSV and JSON. The process should be similar on other platforms.
  - faitswulff 7y ago
    Thanks so much for posting this!
- Y-bar 7y ago
  > I'm guessing your stance on data portability makes your life very hard on iOS anyway. I have zero understanding why you would ask this. Every single first party and third party app other than Signal on iOS allow me to include its data in backups and/or export it’s data.
- dannyw 7y ago
  I can export data from every other app I use on iOS, barring Signal.
thatcat 7y ago
That's more of an ios problem
- chimeracoder 7y ago
  > That's more of an ios problem Ah, so only a problem for 40% of Signal users. There's no technical reason that prevents Signal from doing this; they simply haven't.
  - pas 7y ago
    Can they encrypt it properly? I'm not familiar with how iOS/Apple backup works and how it guarantees that only the user can restore it.
    - chimeracoder 7y ago
      > Can they encrypt it properly? I'm not familiar with how iOS/Apple backup works and how it guarantees that only the user can restore it. Signal backups on Android used to be entirely unencrypted(!), so that hasn't stopped them before.
- samatman 7y ago
  It's a Signal on iOS problem. Backing up and restoring data to new devices is the norm for iOS apps generally.
- izacus 7y ago
  No, it isn't - even on Android it requires you to manually manage the backup files, write down a huge random string and then manually setup sync. My circle stopped using Signal when it became apparent that dying/lost/stolen phone also means complete destruction of all memories they store in the conversations (unless you go through a lot of hoops to get autobackup working). It's pretty much the only chat app of the more marketed ones that will lose all your personal data.
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
tyfon 7y ago
I've set Signal to auto-delete old messages. This is like SMS and IRC not an archive. When I want to save something from a conversation in Signal (or slack or email), I copy it out and store it. Signal does not block you accessing your data. In addition you actually do have an import/export function for your messages if you're on android [1]. [1] https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...
- distances 7y ago
  People have different stances. I do have archives of all my IRC chats too, all the way from the 90s.
otachack 7y ago
You can on Android but not on iPhone apparently. https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages#ios_restore https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba...
Seenso 7y ago
> I stopped using Signal when it was clear i was not able to back up my message history (or transfer it to a new phone). You can do that on Android.
rabboRubble 7y ago
Probably an encouragement to use the disappearing messages feature. It's a peaceful feeling to let data just evaporate without worrying about backing it up. If something is really so important that I can't let it go poof, I'll take a screen shot or save it as a photo/note.

jolmg 7y ago

> I was wondering why Signal hadn't caught on more. Signal would have to be much better with features everyone (not just the tech-savvy) can appreciate to be able to outweigh Whatsapp's network effect.

dmix 7y ago
There's only a finite amount of 'features' a messenger can really have, I don't think it's going to work like that at all. If Signal can reach feature parity with WhatsApp/FB Messenger/iMessage it already offers a massive advantage that's getting more and more popular and it sounds like it is already close to reaching parity. The biggest win for Signal (although not for the general public) is if WhatsApp ever compromises on their E2E adoption. Because right now there isn't a significant reason to switch between the two given WhatsApps massive adoption. One unique feature advantage might be the encrypted contacts stuff they mention in the article, but even then that just keeps them at the top tier privacy wise.
- IshKebab 7y ago
  I think the point is that most people barely even know what encryption is. They definitely know what end to end encryption is and they don't care. Signal needs so feature that normal people care about to get them to switch from WhatsApp. Not only that - it needs a feature so amazing it trumps WhatsApp's "can communicate with everyone" feature - i.e. everyone uses WhatsApp. That's going to be insanely hard, if not downright impossible. They may have a chance in America I guess.
  - octorian 7y ago
    They definitely don't know what end to end encryption is FTFY Seriously, look at the comments on any discussion about some app deploying end-to-end encryption, or having any sort of security issue/change. Its clear that most people simply don't know the difference between "transport encryption" (device-to-server) and "end-to-end encryption" (device-to-device) (and often move the goalposts to cover on-device data at rest too, often out of confusion).
7y ago

rurounijones 7y ago

> I was wondering why Signal hadn't caught on more. Network effect of existing apps and no "Killer feature" for Signal that the layman cares about (Better privacy is not it).