10 ms·
Boeing fired midlevel executive following embarrassing emails
- bookofjoe 7y agohttp://archive.is/hk4Cd http://archive.is/hk4Cd
- q_eng_anon 7y agothank you - you are my favorite kind of person! (use https though)
- bookofjoe 7y agoYou're most welcome. I always do this with WSJ articles I submit to HN. However, the paywall busting site I use — http://archive.is/ http://archive.is/ — doesn't have https
- BuildTheRobots 7y ago>However, the paywall busting site I use — http://archive.is/ http://archive.is/ — doesn't have https This seems to have changed as the following works for me: https://archive.is/hk4Cd https://archive.is/hk4Cd
- bookofjoe 7y agoExcellent. It works for me too. From now on, that will be my paywall buster of first resort.
- mzs 7y agoI don't know why people comment with archive links for WSJ articles that were in the print edition https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/202002128400/boeing-fired-midlevel-executive-following-embarrassing-emails https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/202002128400/boei...
- bookofjoe 7y agoBecause most HN readers don't have access to the print edition.
- mzs 7y agoI suppose I should have been clearer. Dow Jones republishes all WSJ articles that make it to the print edition. The Morningstar website shows those. It is an ad supported way for people to read these articles without a subscription which still financially supports journalism.
- bookofjoe 7y agoI didn't know that: great info which I will use.
- leeoniya 7y ago> Boeing leaders have faced questions from federal lawmakers about who has been held accountable for the MAX crisis. so, apparently the leakers?
- basementcat 7y agoNote that this person did not write or receive any of these messages; he was a manager of those who did.
- ihumanable 7y agoFrom the article: Mr. Cooper didn’t send or receive the messages, the latest batch of which Boeing disclosed to lawmakers and the news media in January, this person said. Those messages show Boeing employees mocking airline officials, aviation regulators and even their own colleagues. In one, an employee said the 737 MAX had been “designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys.” Boeing Chief Executive David Calhoun, who has called the messages “totally appalling,” has said he aimed to stamp out such behavior and hold managers accountable. “Awareness in the leadership ranks around whether that’s happening or not is not an excuse if it’s happening,” Mr. Calhoun said in a call with reporters in January, shortly after taking over as CEO. “Disciplinary actions have to be taken.” --- To summarize: They fired a guy for not knowing about emails he did not send or receive where engineers were voicing their internal concerns that the 737 MAX design was lacking. Boeing's take away wasn't, "People knew something was wrong and didn't have a way to properly voice that concern." Boeing's take away was, "Middle management should have sufficiently threatened those under their supervision into self-censoring their concerns." Seems like a super-healthy corporate culture that would simultaneously be a fun place to work and produce the best products /s
- Mirioron 7y agoThis kind of an article sounds incredibly damning to me. It indicates that Boeing is essentially rotten on the inside and that anybody doing business with them should be wary.
- HarryHirsch 7y agoPerhaps related: https://orgprepdaily.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/on-keeping-your-soul https://orgprepdaily.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/on-keeping-you... This is a chemist's view from the trenches. A manager who hasn't been brought up in the engineering mindset wouldn't even be able to understand any of the points in that blogpost, which partially explains the trouble that pharmaceutical companies are finding themselves in. You cannot bribe or cheat observable reality.
- lutorm 7y ago
- mrbonner 7y agoHe was a VP. I’m not aware VP is a mid level management job. I always thought director level and below would be the case.
- bcrosby95 7y agoDepends upon the place. Sometimes VP is above director or vice versa.
- SilasX 7y agoSo, title inflation?
- sbuttgereit 7y agoDepends on the company. In some companies, there are many VPs that themselves form a hierarchy... so you'll have a VP, Senior VP, Executive VP, etc. So VP can start to look an awful lot like directors (not board directors that is). On the flip side, I'm working with a company where everyone that should have a "Director" title relative to their authority, knowledge, and experience has been given a VP title... probably because the company isn't very attractive as an employer.
- goatinaboat 7y agoA VP in an investment bank would be a middle manager.
- dbcurtis 7y agoOr in enterprise sales, someone who has 6 months tenure. Why? Because an angry customer call can always be handled with: "I will put you straight through to the Vice President."
- objclxt 7y ago> I’m not aware VP is a mid level management job A lot of companies (especially finance) suffer from title inflation, and also flip Director and VP (i.e, Director is a higher rank than VP). For example, at Goldman Sachs 30% of all employees are Vice Presidents.
- fukpaywalls 7y agoi hate paywalls, this news link should be removed!
- ChuckMcM 7y agoFiring people is always an interesting way to prove you are doing something about a problem which has already happened and is already being addressed. Generally it try’s to show that you are “taking responsibility” but generally the people who are actually responsible are just doing the firing to avoid the stigma of being the screw up[1]. [1] At one group in Netflix (which has an aggressive fire fast culture) that I interviewed with, I came to realize the position existed primarily to provide shielding for the managers above it. I reached out to the former person in the role and they confirmed my suspicions. Not the behavior that Netflix was trying to encourage but there you go.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago> I came to realize the position existed primarily to provide shielding for the managers above it Basically, employees are used as ablative armor for management?
- PebblesRox 7y agoI’m curious, what was it that triggered your suspicions?
- riazrizvi 7y agoBoeing CEO David Calhoun vows to stamp out 'such behavior' and hold managers accountable. What behavior? Well he reassigns the Boeing pilot who lied to regulators, and fires the Boeing manager overseeing external pilots, who called out the bad design and incompetence within. Got it.
- frozenlettuce 7y agoLooks like that for them building defective planes is not as bad as sending "embarrassing" emails
- neonate 7y agohttps://archive.md/hk4Cd https://archive.md/hk4Cd
- madrox 7y agoI'm reminded a lot of the Challenger explosion investigation [1]. Specifically, Feynman's discoveries and analysis while investigating NASA. He discovered a huge disconnect between engineers and management. What's more, the commission seemed less intent on identifying the systemic issue and more on giving the appearance of a quick resolution, which Feynman hates. "For a successful technology," Feynman concluded, "reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." I feel like it's the same problems at Boeing, and the same pattern of addressing problems. It will be interesting to see if a publicly traded company will be more effective than a government organization at solving these problems. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Commission_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Commission_Report
- allen3 7y agoTypical PR move by Boeing, they're going to start beating the drum on accountability and turning a new corner. Which is all BS, but executive leadership will be applauded on wall street for their efforts. Sad to see especially when you consider the role the company has around the world.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- coverband 7y agohttps://outline.com/8tVAdC https://outline.com/8tVAdC